Update: I sometimes have some bizarre websites link to articles on True Discernment, the latest is a Hate Mongering Anti-Semitic Lie spreading Web Site Called: “Jew World Order” which has linked to this article. And this is one of the unfortunate aspects of having a website with articles, you cannot control who links to them! So for anyone who gets redirected from “Jew World Order” to True Discernment and this article. I do not in any way agree with the lies being spread by “Jew World Order” And they are just that proven lies.
His contention that the Ashkenazi Jews are not true Jews but Kazars who converted to Judaism is a false premise put forward by Arthur Koestler in his book: “The Thirteenth Tribe”. This premise was later shown to be false through genetic testing of modern day Ashkenazi Jews which showed that the overwhelming majority of Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to the populations among whom they lived in Europe. Where the Kazars are said to have fled after the fall of their kingdom in the second half of the 10th century.
Hate filled ideologies reveal their true nature when they are confronted with the Truth. After I asked the owner of the “Jew World Order” website to remove any link to this article he replied with an expletive & hate filled email!
So for Mr. Emery J.Woodall of “Jew World Order” who resides in Georgia in the U.S. we do as Jesus said in Matthew 5:44: “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”
some interesting perspectives on Ezekiel 38-39 from the Tribulation Network:
Please excuse me by elaborating on Russia’s ill-conceived involvement in the Gog-Magog War and the faulty identifications attributed thereto by what can only be described as American Cold War enthusiasts determined to corner Russia as the aggressor in all things eschatological. The Grace Online Library refutes the contention that “Rosh” refers to modern-day Russia:
“LaHaye (i.e., Tim LaHaye) writes that one way we know that Ezekiel 38 and 39 ‘can only mean modern-day Russia’ is because of ‘etymology,’ that is, by studying the origin of words. The Hebrew word rosh that is found in Ezekiel 38:2 is said to be a people-group that refers to modern-day Russia. Part of the argument rests on the belief that rosh sounds like Russia. Those who hold this view translate Ezekiel 38:2 this way: ‘Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.’ The key phrase is ‘prince of Rosh,’ which they would have us to understand as the ‘leader of Russia.’ A more accurate translation, the one followed by the King James Version, based on the way rosh is used elsewhere in the Old Testament, would read this way: ‘Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.’(7) Even scholars who would agree with LaHaye on many other prophetic points admit that rosh does not refer to Russia. Charles Ryrie even takes issue with the New American Standard translation of Ezekiel 38:2 when he writes: ‘The prince of Rosh’ is better translated as ‘the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. While the New American Standard Bible uses ‘the prince of Rosh’ in Ezekiel 38:2 and 39:1, it has a marginal note in 39:1 which reads ‘chief prince of Meshech.’ Meshech and Tubal are not linked with a place called Rosh (8) in any other place in the Bible (Gen. 10:2; 1 Chron. 1:5; Isa. 66:19;8 Ezek. 27:13; 32:26), so it is extremely unlikely that in these two cases alone rosh takes on an entirely different meaning from the way it is used elsewhere in the Old Testament.
“This interpretation is not unique to LaHaye. Hal Lindsey popularized the interpretation in his Late Great Planet Earth.(9) LaHaye follows Lindsey’s view to the letter. LaHaye writes the following in his The Beginning of the End:
The name Moscow comes from the tribal name Meshech, and Tobolsk, the name of the principal state, comes from Tubal. The noun Gog is from the original tribal name, Magog, which gradually became Rosh, then Rus, and today is know as Russia. In the very interesting book The Late Great Planet Earth, my friend Hal Lindsey presents a lengthy discussion of the identity of these nations. I was so impressed by the accuracy of his sources and his readable style that I obtained permission to quote him at length, with numbered footnotes indicating his sources.’(10)
“The Rosh=Russia interpretation was introduced to Christians in the first edition of the Scofield Reference Bible in 1917. Scofield wrote that ‘The reference to Meshech and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk) is a clear mark of identification (i.e., with Russia).’ (11) The views of Scofield, Lindsey, and LaHaye are not supported by Bible-believing Christian historians, archaeologists, and linguists. Edwin M. Yamauchi, professor of history at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, is an authority on the subject, and disagrees with Lindsey’s analysis. He writes that the Hebrew word rosh ‘can have nothing to do with modern ‘Russia.’ This would be a gross anachronism, for the modern name is based upon the name Rus, which was brought into the region of Kiev, north of the Black Sea, by the Vikings only in the Middle Ages.’(12) Other evangelical scholars agree:Any concordance will show that rosh is never used as a proper name that refers to a nation.(14) There are priests in Israel and there are ‘chief priests.’ The word for ‘chief’ is rosh (2 Kings 25:18; 1 Chron. 27:5; 2 Chron. 19:11; 24:6; 26:20; 31:10; Ezra 7:5; Jer. 52:24).
“There is no evidence from the ancient Near East that a country named Rosh ever existed. Some would understand rosh as modern Russia. Proponents of this view usually appeal to etymology based on similar sounds (to the hearing) between two words. Such etymological procedures are not linguistically sound, nor is etymology alone a sound hermeneutical basis on which to interpret a word. The word Russia is a late eleventh-century A.D. term. Therefore, the data does [sic] not seem to support an interpretation of rosh as a proper name of a geographical region or country.(13)
Rosh is a common Hebrew word that is used hundreds of times in the Bible and means ‘chief,’ ‘head,’ or ‘beginning.’ For example, Rosh Hashanah marks the beginning of the Jewish New Year. It is described as a ‘high holy day’ because it is the chief or head holy day of the year. It literally means ‘head of the year’ or ‘first of the year.’ Jews also celebrate Rosh Hodesh, the beginning of the new month in the Jewish calendar and celebrated during the morning worship time in a Jewish synagogue (1 Sam. 20:5). . . . . . .
The strategic isolation of Russia serves no primary geopolitical purpose whatsoever—aside from the Ships of Tarshish and their ability to subsume more nations into her economic orb. Once again, a supernatural hand aligns the nations of the earth for the final countdown to the Treaty of Hell and Death. Russia’s reaction was and is altogether predictable—as much as her former satellites is a sure forecast of wrenching antagonism toward her dominance and immediate acquiescence to all that is Western. Georgia knew precisely what she was doing, and America calculated her move with cheese-like brilliance. The Putin-Medvedev game plan seems altogether an overdue and even measured response—but who fell into whose trap?
The Europeans think the USA did when Georgia appears to have overplayed her hand. Alas! CHECKMATE!
Not until “the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Messiah (the Christ)” shall there be true peace and harmony among the nations, peoples, tribes of the earth. American Evangelical Christianity is so mesmerized by the Russian bear, that like Walvoord and a host of leading eschatologist (do a Google search and you will readily tell), Russia’s behavior toward Georgia and Iran bespeaks the utter fulfillment of the future Gog-Magog War.
In a word: NO! Russia shall be reserved until “rumors from the north” shall trouble him—then and then only shall she fulfill her “bit part” in the end-time scenario. Antichrist plays the chief roll – end of story – until the image is destroyed:
“And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great god has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure” (Daniel 2:44-45).
read the full article here.
I think that we need to pay a more close attention to Israels historical enemies. This means any and all of the following: Rome, Greece, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Egypt. This also includes Lebannon to some extent. I really do not look at Russia as a major player in the war about to take place.
Just curious as of 11/30/2015 what you think of Russia now? In Syria, around Syria, in the Mediterranean and surrounding area and getting into it with Turkey now and the bombing in Egypt of the Russian plane. What do you think. I think it is all starting to look exactly like the bible said it would.
does anybody answering this site have any objections to the chief prince of eastern and central anatolia regions in Ezekiel times past? is whom he is speaking about? Bill
I saw that by way of the Macedonians
“Magog” could refer to the southern portions of what we now consider “Russia,” however. Chuck Missler follows some of the language issues through, citing the original name of the current day Russians as “Scythians,” who then settled in the southern areas we consider “Russia,” today.
What’s interesting is Magog is pulled into the war by a “hook.” In other words, they don’t appear to be voluntarily involved. This would imply some sort of alliance with someone who starts out to destroy Israel, is destroyed in the process, triggering a reaction through some treaty to counter-attack in some way.
My own theory is the person leading this army, Gog, the “Rosh,” will be seen by the world as the AC, while the real AC rises up to protect Israel, convincing the world he is the “christ.” This makes sense in the situation, for somehow some part of Israel must be convinced the AC is really the “christ.” The AC taking credit for destroying Rosh, or Gog, would provide the perfect setting.
Not that I can know, for certain, but it’s fun to speculate.
If in fact the The reference to Meshech and Tubal means
Moscow and Tobolsk, which are obviously Russian cities,
then Rosh could men “chief priest” prinnce of moscow who
dicided to name the country after the word Rosh. The fact
tha Russia was baced on christian catholic belief, word Rosh
could be used both ways without changing scolars views.Its
not uncommon to name country or city after meaningful word.
When I looke at maps back then, Magog, Meshek , Tubal, Gomer, & Beth Togarmah were all in Turkey. Even all the churches mentioned in Revelations were located in Turkey. I read that the name Russia came from the migration of the Varangians(Vikings) between 9-11ad century; way after 598bc.
It provides great speculation and it is exciting to watch Gods plan unfolding. I have come to realise though , that the Lord has deliberatley left us to speculate on some things to keep us on our toes, we often view prophecy through the eyes of the world we live in, ie the cold war and Russia being the demon. The USA being the good guys, BUT it would appear that the usa is about to be the demon via the new world order. so brethren hold your breath and enjoy the ride. for God has everything under control, even a few surprises.
And now the Kingdom of this world has become the Kingdom of our God and his Christ. Because he is KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORD LORDS, and EVERY knee shall bow and confess him as LORD. let us watch with bated breath his plan unfolding. thankyou for the article. Harry
Amen Harry
The majority of the U.S. have made Russia suddenly our enemies since Trump, but many Christians are seeing that too, from their biblical point of view. The two who clashes, seem to be in agreement about Russia. I for one saw Assad as just one more the U.S. wanted to do a regime change with, which resulted in the Syrain refugee crisis in the 1st place. I didn’t buy that Assad killed his own people with sarin gas. I didn’t see the U.S. combatting effectively with ISIS. Russia, to me, was a positive for the people of Syria. I feel prophecy will be fulfilled but that doesn’t mean it was fulfilled by good means.
Gog… the antichrist… poor understanding of scripture there. No, Gog is in no way meant to be considered the AntiChrist… Youtube: Rolltide4Christ (identity of the antiChrist)…
Genesis 48:21
The sons of Benjamin were Belah, Becher, Ashbel, Gera, Naaman, Ehi, Rosh, Muppim, Huppim, and Ard.
The Hebrew word in the above sentence is most often translated “and head of” or “head of”. However, in Genesis 48:21 it is clearly the name of a person. The question is where did “Rosh” settle?
Rosh son of Benjamin settled in Egypt with the rest of his family. Remember Joseph was ruler of Egypt under Pharaoh at the time and the whole family moved their and they didn’t leave until Moses.
It’s Russia. Don’t neglect Ezekial 39:2…. “I will turn you around and lead you on, bringing you up FROM THE FAR NORTH”. The only country in the FAR north is Russia.
Exactly Dizzle … its amazing how people forget this part … in the Hebrew the term is “Utter most part of the North” … so you can forget Turkey … if you draw a line from Jerusalem to the North it almost dissects Moscow … What other country in the far north has the power and aggression to fulfil Ezekiel 38 … please let’s be logical. Plus it appears from the statement “I will put Hooks in thy jaws and bring you down” … That this would mean that Russia makes a dramatic move down into the Middle East and particularly Israel through absolute necessity rather than pure speculation. Think about it. Israel has just found massive Gas reserves off shore … they believe that within a few short years they can be piping it into Europe and make billions of dollars … you think Russia is going to standby idly and let that happen?? … They haven’t stood by to let Ukraine fall into the hands of the West with all their recent finds of oil deposits and they certainly cannot afford for Israel to start churning our sales of Gas to Europe. So to me it is so blatantly obvious that Ezekiel 38 is talking about Russia with some confederate supporters who will definitely invade Israel with the sole intent of protecting their own interests. Of course they will at the same time “think an evil thought” (Mass Genocide of the Jews) and they will come to their end. Get ready everyone … the end times are being played out before our very eyes!!
Check the original text. Not the new modernized standard versions, the original text. you will change your minds
To me it looks like the furthest north of the Black Sea is the Ukraine, then Belarus.
Far North is used for Togarmah, Which is actually a country east of Turkey. Far north in the Bible means the area South of Caucasus. This is explicitly stated and no secret”
Ezekiel 38:6: The house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.
Togarmah on the map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Noahsworld_map_Version2.png
China, and Russia are not mentioned in the Bible
By looking at biblical maps, Gog comes from the Gogid dynasty that ruled the country of Lydia ( Lydian Kingdom) which was in Asia minor, today’s Turkey. Meshech, Tubal, Togarmah, Magog, Gomer and Lud are all in Asia minor and not in Russia, Rosh is not Russia just because some are trying to match it with Russia. Like saying that Mesheck is Moscow or Tubal is Tobolsk. Most Christians would like to identify Rosh as Russia, however Russia has not threatened the Jews but the Arab nations surrounding Israel have said openly that Israel should be destroyed. Rosh is a Hebrew word to mean “head or chief” not Russia.
Thank you John, for this article. And thank you EJK. Clear and succinct. Rosh is not Russia just because some are trying to match it with Russia. We need scriptural back up. If you think you have a good interpretation scripture will say it some where else!!
Josephus identified Magog as the Scythians who were located in the Northern Black Sea region. “Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians.” (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews Book 1 Chapter 6). I’m pretty sure that Josephus was not under some influence of cold war patriotism or by modern day linguists. And in light of recent events I’m pretty sure that Russia establishing a military presence in Syria is leading us up to the fulfillment of prophecy. Of course that is just my humble opinion.
I wonder too, if current events haven’t altered any opinions on Russia’s role inn the Ezekial 38 prophecy. I definitely can’t be dogmatic one way or the other, but Russia, aligned with Persia certainly seems to have been drawn into regional conflict that will eventually include Israel.
There is a long way to go before you see an Ezekiel 38 Gog Magog war. Lest we forget there is a very large Muslim divide: Sunni versus Shiite, and that sectarian war is going on right now in Syria and other areas of the Middle East. Before Ezekiel 38 can happen that sectarian war has to be resolved either through a a rapprochement between Shiite and Sunni Muslims or one side becomes the victor setting the stage for the Ezekiel 38 war. It appears that the Shiites are beginning to get the upper hand, led by Iran. Time will tell! When you have half of the Arab world, some privately some openly supporting a strong Israel as they contribute to a strong deterrence to Iranian Middle East expansionism, you can say that the Ezekiel 38 war is not going to happen anytime soon.
and a reminder:
“The Rosh=Russia interpretation was introduced to Christians in the first edition of the Scofield Reference Bible in 1917. Scofield wrote that ‘The reference to Meshech and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk) is a clear mark of identification (i.e., with Russia).’ (11) The views of Scofield, Lindsey, and LaHaye are not supported by Bible-believing Christian historians, archaeologists, and linguists. Edwin M. Yamauchi, professor of history at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, is an authority on the subject, and disagrees with Lindsey’s analysis. He writes that the Hebrew word rosh ‘can have nothing to do with modern ‘Russia.’ This would be a gross anachronism, for the modern name is based upon the name Rus, which was brought into the region of Kiev, north of the Black Sea, by the Vikings only in the Middle Ages.’(12) Other evangelical scholars agree:
“There is no evidence from the ancient Near East that a country named Rosh ever existed. Some would understand rosh as modern Russia. Proponents of this view usually appeal to etymology based on similar sounds (to the hearing) between two words. Such etymological procedures are not linguistically sound, nor is etymology alone a sound hermeneutical basis on which to interpret a word. The word Russia is a late eleventh-century A.D. term. Therefore, the data does [sic] not seem to support an interpretation of rosh as a proper name of a geographical region or country.(13)
Rosh is a common Hebrew word that is used hundreds of times in the Bible and means ‘chief,’ ‘head,’ or ‘beginning.’ For example, Rosh Hashanah marks the beginning of the Jewish New Year. It is described as a ‘high holy day’ because it is the chief or head holy day of the year. It literally means ‘head of the year’ or ‘first of the year.’ Jews also celebrate Rosh Hodesh, the beginning of the new month in the Jewish calendar and celebrated during the morning worship time in a Jewish synagogue (1 Sam. 20:5).
Any concordance will show that rosh is never used as a proper name that refers to a nation.(14) There are priests in Israel and there are ‘chief priests.’ The word for ‘chief’ is rosh (2 Kings 25:18; 1 Chron. 27:5; 2 Chron. 19:11; 24:6; 26:20; 31:10; Ezra 7:5; Jer. 52:24).
Receiving some more comments on this article, some of them quite long. What I want to point out is that many people and quite a few “Prophecy” Teachers are getting caught up in what they see happening in the Middle East right now and making wrong assumptions, make no mistake that many of the players in the proxy wars in the Middle East right now are mentioned in Ezekiel 38, however, what you cannot do is allow yourself to lose sight of what is ACTUALLY happening in the Middle East, and what MUST happen for Ezekiel 38 to occur.
Currently there is a huge ideological divide within Islam: Sunni versus Shiite, and the hatred between Sunni’s and Shiite’s is virtually as great as that being spoken of by most Muslims towards the Jews.
The war that is going in the Middle East right now is between Sunni’ and Shiite Muslims. the Shiites are led by Iran, and the Sunni’s are led by Saudi Arabia.
Before Ezekiel 38 can happen, this war has to be resolved, and in favor of those Muslim countries that are mentioned in Ezekiel 38.
Receiving more comments of people saying, “in light of what is currently happening in Syria & Iraq, what do you think now” nothing has changed from my comment on October 10, 2015. Also if you do some research on Russia, it does not have the power projection capability, to militarily dominate the Middle East, or to “sweep through” the Middle East. A great deal of things have to happen in the Middle East before we see “Rosh” emerge, and again it is not Russia!
Many times in Bible Prophecy there are events that point to the end times, but they are not the actual events as prophesied in scripture. They are more of catalyst events, “axial points” in History that lead to or open the door to Biblical Prophecy eventually being fulfilled, however that fulfillment could be years or decades off!.
Rosh is a noun or title according to Jewish-Hebrew language, as in, Rosh Hashana. It’s a title: so in Eze 39:1 it says, “Son of man, prophesy against Gog & says; This is what the Sovereign Lord say: I am against you, O Gog, “chief” prince og Meshech & Tubal. NIV. It is Not Russia because Russia or the name Rus didn’t come into being until approximarely 1500 years after Ezekiel. So how would Ezekiel know this information?