Archive for the ‘Rick Warren’ Category

from Holy Bible Prophecy:

Can the Church borrow the marketing tools of the world and apply them to the Church? What is the history of the Church Growth movement and its false premises? Who is involved in the new evangelicalism and second reformation? Why are these movements embracing contemplative mysticism? How does this movement play into the New World Order? These questions and more are answered in Church of Tares: Purpose Driven, Seeker-Sensitive, Church Growth & New World Order.

Church of Tares chronicles the man-centered pragmatism of these evangelical Christian movements in comparison to the Bible’s instruction for building the Church of Jesus Christ. As a sequel to The Real Roots of the Emergent Church, Church of Tares documents the connections between the liberal Emergent Church movement and the Church Growth movement. Both movements’ leadership were discipled by business management guru Peter Drucker, who was attracted to the megachurch movement as a social phenomenon that could bring about his “new society” and New World Order. Megacurch pastors Rick Warren and Bill Hybels as well as Leadership Network founder Bob Buford all acknowledge Drucker (who professed not to be a Christian) as their mentor and have built their organizations upon his secular business management philosophies rather than the foundation of Jesus Christ.

The fruit of these movements is great compromise of the Gospel and the Great Commission. Rick Warren claims to be ushering in a new spiritual awakening and second reformation with his P.E.A.C.E. Plan. But this reform appears to be a social reformation rather than a spiritual one by joining together in ministry with unbelievers to fight global giants. Such compromise has led to the affirming response letter to the Common Word document which declares Muhammad to be a prophet and the Bible and Qur’an to be of the “same Divine origin.”

For more information visit www.holybibleprophecy.org

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from The “Christian” Post:

Is there no end to the lack of spiritual discernment within the Christian community? Even some of our Church leaders are showing a startling lack of discernment. And if we can’t trust our leaders to help us stay on the straight and narrow path, who can we trust?

On October 5th, Southern Baptist preacher Rick Warren sat down with New Age/New Thought high priestess Oprah Winfrey for an interview. Although Oprah claims to be a Christian she most assuredly is not as I clearly demonstrate here and here. Joel Osteen, who is said to be “one of America’s most influential spiritual leaders,” appeared on the show prior to Warren to promote his new book, “I Declare: 31 Promises To Speak Over Your Life.” Around 45,000 people attend Lakewood Church each Sunday to hear Osteen preach the word-faith prosperity gospel “lite.” It’s really not surprising that he was invited to appear on “Oprah’s Life Class.” The duo has become fast friends ever since she and Tyler Perry attended a Lakewood service some months back. They soon discovered how like-minded they are. In fact, Osteen has this Oprahesque declaration on his website:

The words we speak set the course for our life. If you want to know what you’re going to be like in five years, listen to the words you are saying about yourself today.


Osteen not only teaches a false gospel, he apparently has scant knowledge of the scriptures which is the main reason the man who pastors the largest megachurch in America is unaware that the Lord has called His followers to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tm 2:15).

Rick Warren’s claim to fame is his books “The Purpose Driven Church” and “The Purpose Driven Life.” PDL is the best-selling hardback non-fiction book in American history and is translated into more than 50 languages. By using modern marketing methods he helped lay the foundation for the Church Growth movement (CGM). Largely due to the popularity of his purpose-driven books the CGM has spread through churches like a windstorm sweeping across the Great Plains, ushering in a “new paradigm” of transformational leadership to meet the challenge of the new century. CGM “emphasizes mainly missionary work combined with sociological awareness of the target population.” In other words, it utilizes slick marketing techniques. The object is to reach the “unchurched” using the age-old principle: You can draw more flies with honey than with vinegar. Hence, the “seeker-sensitive” label.

Over the years Pastor Warren has become controversial, and rightly so, for a multitude of reasons which I’ve tackled here and here. For one reason or another controversy continually swirls around “America’s Pastor.” Still, he is highly regarded by many in the Christian community and likewise the press. What’s stunning is that he’s often invited to speak at events with New Calvinist luminaries like John Piper, Mark Driscoll, James MacDonald and Matt Chandler. Before I move on, I must bring to light influential Reformed theologian John Piper’s recent endorsement of Rick Warren. Many of us in the discernment ministries were both surprised and troubled by his endorsement. Christine Pack observed:

[Piper] gave his “stamp of approval” by having Warren be a keynote speaker at Dr. Piper’s annual Desiring God conference. This was an event that caught many in evangelicalism off guard and resulted in a flurry of articles and blog posts over a number of months. The problem with Dr. Piper welcoming Rick Warren into the fold is that Dr. Piper has long been known as a champion and protector of the purity of the gospel message. (Source)

Pastor celebrity James MacDonald was once asked to comment on the “seeker movement” and he replied, “The seeker movement [should be] subtitled: How to Fill Your Church with Tares.” Later he publically affirmed Rick Warren in a tweet even knowing that the seeker movement that filled churches with heathens was the brain child of “possibility thinker” Robert Schuller. His most recognized disciples are Bill Hybels and Rick Warren. Excuse me, but a shepherd’s duty is to point out error and guard the flock from wolves in sheep’s clothing, not to invite them into the sheep pen!

Sorry to digress.

Another prominent pastor who shares the stage with Rick Warren is Greg Laurie of Harvest Christian Fellowship, a Calvary Chapel in Riverside, CA. Laurie is best known as the founder and featured speaker for Harvest Crusades.

So, what is going on in the visible Church?

Glad you asked. In a word: syncretism. Syncretism occurs when elements of other religious beliefs are mashed into mainstream Protestant denominations. In a piece entitled Purpose Driven Dismantling of Christianity, I examined the effect syncretism has on the Church:

Satan uses syncretism to separate God from His people. God loathes syncretism:

“When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.” (Deuteronomy 12:29-31)

Grievous wolves (Acts 20:29) masquerading as evangelicals introduced false religious beliefs (abominations) into mainline churches. Many of them are forthcoming about what they’re doing, others not so much. Their main goal is … change. The plan (yes, they have a plan) is to dismantle historic orthodox Christianity and usher in a “new paradigm,” a “new kind of Christianity.”

Wolves are skillful at drawing people in. They’ve learned how to use TV, radio, the Worldwide Web, human potential seminars, psycho-therapeutic counseling, so-called Christian entertainment that includes movies, DVDs, books and music. Some believers are drawn in through political groups. As you can see, a whole host of lures are used to bait the hook.

Many professing Christians have accepted the blending of religious beliefs with no questions asked. They sit in churches where they’re not taught the truth but are fed a steady diet of half truths and outright lies! Jesus wanted those who believe in Him to read and understand the Word. “Sanctify them through thy truth,” He prayed. “Thy Word is truth!” (John 17:17 ) (Source)

Now, let’s get to my questions: Why did Rick Warren agree to do an interview with Oprah? Moreover, why would he want to be associated with word-faith heretic Joel Osteen? We discover after the fact that he did not use the opportunity to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with the lost, many of whom were tuned into the show. No. Instead he used his time with Oprah to pass on his sage advice to the audience, peppered with a few Bible quotes — taken out of context!

Former New Ager and astrologer Marcia Montenegro watched the 3 hours of live taping on Oprah’s Life Class. I think the following excerpt about what she observed clearly identifies the sort of pastor Rick Warren is:

Although Rick Warren has had New Age Dr. Oz at his church (along with a supposedly Christian doctor who also endorses some New Age practices), I was hoping he (RW) would somehow give the gospel in the midst of his motivational advice, but he never did. He used the imagery of a poker game to explain we are dealt certain cards, and then gave a teaching on this that sounded like moralistic self-help programs I’ve heard so many times, throwing in a few Bible quotes taken out of context or misquoted. It was something almost any New Ager could accept. God becomes a tool for self-improvement and success. Warren referred to Jesus, but took scripture out of context and applied things said to believers to everyone. He also misused the Proverbs passage that says “as a man thinketh, so is he.” This passage is a famous passage misused by New Thought proponents and is used in “The Secret.” What was really hard to watch is when a woman in Norway Skyped to say she realized she needed God but wanted to know who God is and she asked, “What should I do?” It was clear that she was ripe to hear the gospel and needed Jesus! It was a great opportunity to share the gospel with her, and at the same time, for Oprah to hear it. Instead of giving the gospel, Rick Warren seemed uncomfortable and finally just said something like, ‘Go to God and find your purpose.” It was a terrible moment! The woman looked surprised and sad, like she was expecting something else. I prayed for her later and am hoping that the many Christians who witnessed this will pray for her. Not only that, but when Oprah referred to God, as she often did, Rick Warren agreed with her as though she was referring to the biblical God, which she was not. He even said a few times, “Oprah has a good point.” No, she never did! She was speaking totally out of her New Thought/New Age beliefs. I am grateful that RW recommended that people read the gospel of John. That was the best thing he said. (Read Marcia’s entire piece here)

Why do so many followers of Jesus Christ view Rick Warren as dangerous? Evangelist Tony Miano’s indictment is blunt:

Plastic pastors transparent enough to see through, like Joel Osteen, are not as dangerous as Rick Warren. Modalistic moguls of the painfully-obvious-money-hungry prosperity movement, like T.D. Jakes, are not as dangerous as Rick Warren. Self-serving sorcerers of the false signs and wonders movement, like Todd Bentley, are not as dangerous as Rick Warren. No. None of the before-mentioned personalities or groups are all that dangerous because what you see is what you get. They all lack the ability to change their appearance to accommodate a change in environment. They lack the chameleon-like ability, the self-serving ability, to say what needs to be said in order to keep people in every camp liking them.

Now listen to former Catholic Priest Richard Bennett:

Warren teaches that God ‘created the church to meet your five deepest needs’ just as the Roman Catholic Church says, ‘The Church is the mother of all believers.’ Warren, like Rome, has switched from obedience to the Word and Person of the Living God to submission to a church to achieve one’s needs. It is the oldest and cleverest temptation known to man.

I’ll close with warning from the Lord Jesus:

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous [ferocious] wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Mat. 5:15-20)

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from Summer Patriot, Winter Soldier:

Mohammed does not deny the God of the Jews and the Christians.  he does not deny God’s divinity, nor his absolute nature.

neither does mohammed deny the prophesy of god, nor the divine inspiration of his gospel and the prophets who have brought it before the faithful, or the less than entirely faithful.

he says that god is singular.

rather, mohammed in any number of places in the koran asserts that he is a prophet of that god, in a long line of prophets of that god, and that what he preaches and delivers to his people in arabic so that they might understand and accept it, is the gospel of joseph, of moses, of john the baptist, and of jesus of nazareth.  mohammed does rather gratuitously add that he is the final prophet of god.

and mohammed betrays the assertion that he preaches the gospel, the message and direction of god.

he does it by preaching a lie that is monstrous.

mohammed says that god has delivered falsehood up to his chosen, and those who would follow his path, who would stand firmly upon his rock and the rock of truth.

mohammed posits on the matter of the divinity of jesus that god has puposely misled his flocks into believing that jesus is divine, and that it is now to mohammed to reveal that he is mortal, and no more than a man, as mohammed:

mohammad simply relates that it is revealed to him, by god, that previous prophets, including jesus, are bound by promise to god to acknowledge the word of mohammad as god’s messenger on these issues [the divinity of christ], where mohammeddeparts/differs/contradicts previous biblical prophesy (including, i would suppose, the book revelations, … , mohammed is not included in revelations):

sura 3.  verses 81 and 86.

81.  god took a pledge from the prophets, saying, “if, after i have bestowed scripture and wisdom upon you, a messenger comes confirming what you have been given, you must believe him and support him.  do you affirm this and accept my pledge as binding on you?”  they said, “we do.”  he said, “then bear witness and i too will bear witness.”   82.  those who turn away after this are the ones who break pledges.  83.  do they seek anything other than submission to god?  everyone in the heavens and earth submits to him, willingly or unwillingly; they will all be returned to him.

84.  say [muhammad], “we [muslims] believe in god and in what has been sent down to us and to abraham, ishmael, isaac, jacob, an the tribes.  we believe in what has been given to moses, jesus, and the prophets from their lord.  we do not make a distinction between any of them  it is to him that we devotes ourselves.”  85.  if anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to god, it will not be accepted from him: he will be one of the losers in the hereafter.  86.  why would god guide people who deny the truth, after they have believed and acknowledged that he messenger is true, and after they have been show clear proof?  god does not guide evildoers.

sura 3, verses 81-86, the qur’an, a translation by muhammad a.s. abdel haleem, oxford university press, 2004, u.s.a.

it is all rather stunning.

in these few short, terse paragraphs, islam asserts that god gathers his prophets through time before him, and extracts a promise from them that they will not contradict what they have been given by god to tell the people, … , ” … if, after i have bestowed scripture and wisdom upon you, a messenger comes confirming what you have been given … , “if a messenger comes after them with a message contrary to what they have already told the people as the voice of god.

so, in short, and as pertains to the issue of jesus, god has revealed to his prophets his message, they have spoken his message, which has been that jesus is the son of god, and they have told the people that this is the voice of god speaking through them.

as prophets of god.

and, islam describes them repeatedly as the prophets of god.

teller of the word of god.  truth tellers.

and, in these passages, god tells them that they are to be turned into, … , and this is the politest way i can put it, … , well, fibbers, in on the fix, as it were.

in short, in this revelation mohammed asserts that god has told him that he has previously deceived mankind about these matters, and that mohammed is to reveal to mankind this deception, and that mankind is to accept mohammed as revealing this “truth.”  it reminds me of the classic greek paradox, about the man from ________, and that all men from __________ are liars.

we are to believe that god reveals to mohammed, that mankind is to trust god in the matter of mohammed’s revelations, because god has lied previously through his prophets.  these paragraphs are on their face ridiculous.

and notice the colossal lie that the Qur’an and islam engage in during the course of this revelation to mohammed.  it is underlined in the above paragraphs.  i trust you notice it.”

in short, mohammed says that god has misled the people on the matter of the divinity of jesus.  and, that the prophets before mohammed are brought before god and are sworn to be in on this deception.  this means, that mohammed has simply quite audaciously said, that the prophets have preached the gospel in falsehood, and done it in collusion with one another, and at the instruction of god.

i assert that mohammed preachs falsity on this point, to assert the blasphemous statement that god and his prophets preached falsity on a matter no less important that the divinity of jesus, … ,  and, that all, including god, conspired to preach falsity.

a pity, and a sign of the spiritual poverty of our age, that the simple truths offered above come from a simple & obscure man, rather than the pope of the catholics, the arch bishop of canterbury of the head of the orthodox.

it is in the text of the koran.  it is assuredly the voice of mohammed, and islam would have you believe that it is the voice and instruction of god.  i believe that it is the voice of mohammed, i refuse to either believe or accept that it is the voice of god, and i refuse to be guided by it, and repudiate it.

and, based on this, i repudiate any possibility that mohammed speaks, or ever spoke, with the voice of god as his authority.

mohammed and islam are the conspirators, and they have conspired to mislead on this and many other matters the history of islam.  in a nutshell.

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from WND:

When an Orange County Register article about Rev. Rick Warren of Saddleback Church’s mission to heal differences between evangelical Christians and Muslims was published, some of the pastor’s critics saw it as more evidence of a blurry vision of “Chrislam,” a blending of Christianity and Islam, despite his repeated denials.

The Feb. 23 article cited Saddleback documents that see similarities between Christianity and Islam. One co-authored by Jihad Turk of the Christian-Muslim Consultative Group in Los Angeles and Abraham Meulenberg, pastor of Interfaith Outreach at Saddleback claims the two religions “worship the same God.”

While many supporters of Warren insist that claims in the article are false, the Register reporter and an editor at the paper told WND that Saddleback Church leadership confirmed that the article was “factually accurate.”

“Folks at Saddleback initially made but then withdrew a request for a clarification to the story’s first paragraph,” reporter Jim Hinch told WND in an email.

“Instead of the words ‘Muslims and Christians worship the same God’ they wanted the story to read ‘Muslims and Christians believe that God is one.’ The rest of the story, they said, is factually accurate.”

WND calls and emails to Warren were not returned.

Despite his staff’s acknowledgement to the Register that the article is factually accurate, Warren denied claims in the article by pointing the finger at the reporter for “getting it wrong.”

“This is an example of why I always doubt what I read in newspapers and blogs about ministries,” Warren said in a statement sent to church members.

“Secular reporters trying to cover churches and theological issues often get it wrong,” he said.

“But then Christian bloggers, instead of contacting the ministry, blindly believe, quote and repost the errors made by secular reporters. Then those errors become permanent, searchable, and global on the Internet,” he continued.

“I couldn’t count the number of times a secular reporter has gotten a story about Saddleback wrong but then it is perpetuated by Christians who never fact-check. And the three factors I mentioned about the Internet make it impossible to correct all the misperceptions, and outright lies that get repeated over and over.”

The Register’s Hinch, who has worked as a senior editor at Guideposts magazine, told WND that numerous pastors at Saddleback were contacted about his article, and each one of them told him Warren would not be made available for comment for the story.

One pastor even emailed Hinch to say that “leadership decided they don’t want the work of King’s Way to be published.”

“King’s Way” is a document that was a central focus of the Register story.

The document was unveiled at Saddleback Church in December to an interfaith audience of more than 300 Muslims and Christians. It reportedly was co-authored by Meulenberg and Turk.

The five-page document, which outlined similarities between the two religions, was  introduced through a slide presentation at the event.

Under the heading “A Path to End the 1,400 Years of Misunderstanding Between Muslims and Christians,” the presentation included Bible verses and Quran verses side by side to make the case that the God for both religions are one in the same.

One example was titled “Who we believe in,” followed by “God is the Creator – Genesis 1:1, Al Shura 42:11″

The two verses read:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” – Genesis 1:1

“The originator of the heavens and the earth…” – Al Shura 42:11

Another example was titled “God is One,” followed by “Mark 12:29, Muhammed 47:19″

The verses say:

“And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O’ Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” – Mark 12:29

“So know that there is no Diety except Allah” – Muhammed 47:19

Hinch told WND that he obtained a copy of the “King’s Way” document from a confidential source on the condition that it not be published in its entirety.

He said the document “outlines several areas of theological agreement between Christians and Muslims and commits members of both faiths to three goals: becoming friends; making peace; and sharing ‘the blessings of God’ with others.”

“The Register story based the phrases ‘same God’ and ‘one God’ on the phrasing in this document, which states that Christians and Muslims believe in one God,” Hinch said.

WND’s repeated requests to Saddleback for a copy of the document went unanswered.

After the Register article was published, Warren issued a statement through a Christian Post reporter in an interview format.

Warren said, “A few days ago, an article appeared in the Orange County Register that included some outrageous statements about Saddleback that were incorrect.

“Of course, the media rarely gets everything right, and there’s no way we could respond to every false statement made about us. But I felt this article created so many misperceptions that I agreed to do an interview in response.”

The interviewer also asked Warren if people of other religions worship the same God as Christians, to which Warren replied, “Of course not. Christians have a God that is unique.”

Steve McConkey, of bigworldwatch.com, a news gathering site, said of Warren’s response to the article: “A person should not say one thing one time and another thing later and then blame the reporter.

“The problem that we have is that he has a case of doublespeak. Warren denies the Orange County Register article’s contents, but the document he signed ‘A Common Word Between Us and You’ says differently,” said McConkey.

McConkey was referring to a much publicized 2007 document signed by Warren, among many other Christian leaders. Within the first few lines it says that “many Christians have been guilty of sinning against our Muslim neighbors.”

“Before we ‘shake your hand’ in responding to your letter, we ask forgiveness of the All-Merciful One and of the Muslim community around the world,” the document states.

The lengthy document then outlines how both Muslims and Christians serve “one God” and makes an argument that the two are one in the same, much like the “King’s Way” document unveiled in December at Saddleback Church.

It is that perspective that some Christians have called “Chrislam.”

Saddleback and Warren declined numerous WND attempts to speak about the issue. But in the Christian Post, he responded.

The publication asked, “Are you promoting Chrislam?”

“Of course not. It’s the lie that won’t die,” he said.

Yet his staff has acknowledged the Register article is correct, he had a role in the “King’s Way” document and he signed “Common Word.”

The Register story mentions that both Turk and Gwynn Guibord serve an organization called Christian-Muslim Consultative Group.

WND reached Guibord regarding her interview with Hinch. In the interview she states that her group has avoided inviting evangelical churches to join their endeavor to “foster relationships between churches and mosques” but is now changing that opinion because “Saddleback’s effort is unprecedented.”

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UPDATE: Rck Warren has had a common mode of operation over the last ten years or so. He does things or says things in the wider world and in the main stream media that shows that he is willing to dilute or ignore fundamental Biblical teachings in order to make himself more appealing to the wider world, and to give the impression that non-Christian beliefs and false religions are all really within the realm of acceptance and worship the God of the Bible, and all it takes is for all religions to sit down and get through their various “misunderstandings”

Then when he is actively called out for this, he attempts to smooth the waters so to speak, with his core followers, and others who may have a favorable opinion of him. And his apologists come out in full force to defend him.  The linked article below was FULLY VETTED AND APPROVED by Rick Warren’s ministry.  So you have to believe one of two things, either Rick Warren has had over the last ten years the most inept ministry team in existence, or he is employing his usual mode of operation.

And sadly it is the latter, to understand why Rick Warren would openly deny fundamental Biblical Doctrines you have to understand his background and where he received his theological degree. Rick Warren is a graduate of Fuller Theological Seminary, and you can read a very good article here:(The New Neutralism II) on the role of Fuller Theological Seminary in producing “New Evangelical” “outcome based evangelism” graduates which put engagement with the wider world on the wider world’s terms over separation from the world and doctrinal purity.

From the New Neutralism II:

the mainspring of new evangelicalism is found in three determinations of its founder, Dr. Harold John Ockenga who was also the First President of Fuller Theological Seminary which may be clearly traced to Rick Warren’s “mode of operation:

  • First, new evangelicalism determined to reject Biblical separation.
  • Secondly, new evangelicalism determined to find acceptance by the world.
  • Thirdly, new evangelicalism determined to add the social gospel to the Scriptural gospel….

“Bible-believing Christians would do well to beware of the New Evangelicalism for four valid reasons. 

  • First, it is a movement born of compromise.       
  • Second, it is a movement nurtured in pride of intellect.
  • Third, it is a movement growing on appeasement of evil; and
  • Finally it is a movement doomed by the judgment of God’s Holy Word

God’s Word says:

1 John 2:22,23:

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.  Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also”

Islam says:

God forbid that allah himself should beget a son!…Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood…” (Qur’an 19:12, 29, 88)

God’s Word says:

John 3:16:

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

I and others have been saying for YEARS that this was where Rick Warren was headed! But FEW would listen! Even the denomination I was previously part of, and the same one that allowed Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven teachings to form the basis for their “We Build People” Sunday School teaching WOULD NOT LISTEN!

What is so horribly sad about this and PEOPLE if you call yourself a BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN you need to listen carefully to this, by this declaration, Rick Warren is basically saying that the Bible is not “God Breathed” and that the Bible is just as obscure and flawed as the Qur’an!

I have NO PROBLEM declaring that Rick Warren is NOT a Christian, he is an apostate from the faith, he is a liar and a minister of Satan!

I urge everyone who reads this to copy this article and distribute it to as many Christians as you know! We are in grave times and the hour is very late and people need to be warned of what is coming at American Christianity with a vengeance!

There is not even a possibility that Muslims worship the same God as the God of the Bible! You cannot know the true God unless you acknowledge and accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour AND the SON OF GOD!

Further anyone who would take the time to read the Qur’an and the Bible would know that the attributes of the  God of the Bible are not the attributes of Allah in the Qur’an! So if you do believe that the Bible is indeed  “God breathed”  and the avenue by which God chose to reveal himself to mankind then in no way could the Allah of the Qur’an be the same God!

2 Timothy 3:16:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work”

from the Orange County Register:

The Rev. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest and one of America’s most influential Christian leaders, has embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

The effort, informally dubbed King’s Way, caps years of outreach between Warren and Muslims. Warren has broken Ramadan fasts at a Mission Viejo mosque, met Muslim leaders abroad and addressed 8,000 Muslims at a national convention in Washington D.C.

Saddleback worshippers have invited Muslims to Christmas dinner and played interfaith soccer at a picnic in Irvine attended by more than 300 people. (The game pitted pastors and imams against teens from both faiths. The teens won.)

The effort by a prominent Christian leader to bridge what polls show is a deep rift between Muslims and evangelical Christians culminated in December at a dinner at Saddleback attended by 300 Muslims and members of Saddleback’s congregation.

At the dinner, Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, introduced King’s Way as “a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians.”

The men presented a document they co-authored outlining points of agreement between Islam and Christianity. The document affirms that Christians and Muslims believe in “one God” and share two central commandments: “love of God” and “love of neighbor.” The document also commits both faiths to three goals: Making friends with one another, building peace and working on shared social service projects. The document quotes side-by-side verses from the Bible and the Koran to illustrate its claims.

“We agreed we wouldn’t try to evangelize each other,” said Turk. “We’d witness to each other but it would be out of ‘Love Thy Neighbor,’ not focused on conversion.”

Saddleback representatives declined to make Warren available for comment. Tom Holladay, associate senior pastor at Saddleback, said the outreach to Muslims is part of Saddleback’s PEACE Plan, a wide-ranging effort to solve major world problems by mobilizing governments, businesses and faith communities.

“This is us serving our own community with Muslims here in Orange County,” said Holladay. “We realize we don’t agree about everything and we’re very open about that. … You just recognize the differences and recognize the points where you can work together.”

Warren has faced criticism from some evangelicals for his outreach to Muslims. Late last year, he issued a statement flatly denying rumors that he promulgates what critics term “Chrislam,” a merging of Islam and Christianity.

The “rumor is 100 percent false,” Warren wrote at Pastors.com, a website he founded that provides practical advice to church leaders. “My life and ministry are built on the truth that Jesus is the only way, and our inerrant Bible is our only true authority.”

Polls show that evangelicals are 30 percent more likely than other Christians to hold a negative view of Islam, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. Polls also show that evangelicals overwhelmingly favor converting Muslims to Christianity and are more likely to believe that Islam encourages violence.

Warren has repeatedly encouraged evangelicals to set aside such views, arguing that Christians are obliged to treat everyone with love and respect, regardless of faith.

“I don’t know if you have noticed this, but God likes variety,” Warren told an audience of 8,000 Muslims at a Washington, D.C. convention in 2009, according to a transcript published by the religion news website beliefnet. “People of all beliefs (can) be, and discuss, and, yes, even disagree, without demeaning or debasing each other.”

Warren’s outreach to Muslims stems directly from his church’s location in multiethnic Orange County, home to 170,000 Muslims. For 12 years Warren has lived next door to Yasser Barakat, a Muslim from Syria who worships at a Mission Viejo mosque four miles down the road from Saddleback. The Trabuco Canyon neighbors were friends for years before Barakat realized he lived next door to a world-famous Christian pastor.

When Barakat discovered who Warren was, he invited his neighbor to learn more about Islam. “I was talking to him over the fence,” Barakat said. “I said, ‘Rick, why don’t you go to Syria with me? He said, ‘Sure, let’s talk about it. Let’s do it.’ “

Warren traveled with Barakat to Syria in 2006, and Warren and his wife, Kay, began attending Iftar meals at the Mission Viejo mosque. Iftar is the evening meal Muslims eat after fasting all day during the holy month of Ramadan. Invitations followed to address Muslim conferences in Long Beach, Washington, D.C., and elsewhere.

“We understand that to some people in the religious community these events may be difficult to swallow,” said Yassir Fazaga, imam at the Mission Viejo mosque. “But I believe that we have to begin somewhere and just begin to reach out and be accessible to people when they ask about who we are.”

Gwynne Guibord, an ordained Episcopal priest and co-founder of a Los Angeles outreach group that fosters relationships between churches and mosques nationwide, said Saddleback’s effort is unprecedented. “I’m not aware of any other evangelical church reaching out to the Muslim community,” she said.

Guibord said that when she and Jihad Turk co-founded the Christian-Muslim Consultative Group in 2006, they sent invitations to mosques, the Catholic archdiocese and a variety of mainline Protestant denominations throughout Southern California, but not to evangelical churches.

“I think that many evangelicals feel a mandate to convert people to Christianity,” Guibord said. Because the Consultative Group was founded to respond to increasing antagonism between the two faiths, “we would not have made headway” if one side was trying to convert the other, she said. Now, she said, it might be possible to include evangelicals in her group’s work.

Turk said the relationship between Saddleback and Muslims, though still in its infancy, has already produced results. “People (at the December dinner) were talking about the bonds they’ve formed and they were crying,” he said. Both sides realized they shared misconceptions about each other’s faith.

“We did a quiz at the Christmas dinner,” Turk said, “asking basic questions about Islam or Christianity with the scriptures, the Koran or the Bible. And both sides were missing it…. It’s an education for everyone.”

Barakat said he continues to know Warren as a man who literally loves his neighbor. Barakat said his children could always count on Warren to buy the candy or magazine subscriptions they sold door-to-door for school fundraisers. The Warrens have hosted Barakat’s family at a Christmas dinner, he said.

“He calls me his Muslim brother,” Barakat said. “It all started with a friendship.”

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from Now The End Begins:

Pastors that are really wolves in sheep’s clothing

You knew this day was going to come, when the liberal “love gospel” preachers who, desiring to fill their seats and bank accounts, would find a way to merge apostate christianity with the Devil’s religion of Islam. That day is here.

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” Revelation 3:14-16

Rick Warren with his new best friend, Christ rejector Cat Stevens, who changed his name to Yusef Islam

Just recently, Rick Warren, founder and pastor of Saddleback Community Church in Orange County California, addressed the convention of the Islamic Society of North America. Warren stated that Muslims and Christians must work together to combat stereotypes, promote peace and freedom, and solve global problems. Christians and Moslems – faith mates, soul mates and now work mates! Chrislam!

Quote of the Day: “Before we “shake your hand” in responding to your letter, we ask forgiveness of the All-Merciful One and of the Muslim community around the world.” – Rick Warren in a speech to Muslims.

This weekend, the Memorial Drive Presbyterian Church in Houston along with Christian communities in Atlanta, Seattle, and Detroit will initiate a series of sermons that have been designed to produce an ecumenical reconciliation between Christianity and Islam. In addition to the sermons, the Sunday school lessons will center on the inspired teachings of the Prophet Mohammad. Qurans will be placed in the pews next to the Bibles. (NOTE: Due to the overwhelming response that this article has generated, the Pastor of Memorial Church has issued a semi-denial of the events we reported. They do not, however, deny supporting and teaching a doctrine called “Jesus in the Koran. Click here to read their semi-denial. So until other information is made available to NTEB, we will run the story as is, along with their side, and you the reader can decide what’s going on. But people, ask yourself…would any real, bible believing church try and teach it’s members about “Jesus in the Koran”? That’s blasphemy.)

The concept of Chrislam, now embraced by such preachers as Rick Warren and Robert Schuller, appears to have emerged from a program on the meaning of “love your neighbor” at Grace Fellowship Church in Atlanta, Georgia “In 2001, like most Americans, we were pretty awakened to the true Islamic presence in the world and in the United States,” says Jon Stallsmith, the outreach minister at Grace Fellowship. “Jesus says we should love our neighbors. We can’t do that without having a relationship with them.”

The sign may be Photoshop, but the message it carries is all too real. Chrislam must be stopped now. If your church teaches this heresy – run!

Stallsmith maintains that a rapprochement between Muslims and Christians can be achieved by the fact that Jesus is mentioned twenty-five times in the Quran.

The Chrislam movement has gained impetus by statements from President George W. Bush and that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same God and by Rick Warren’s reference to Isa (the Muslim name for Jesus) in his prayer at the inauguration of President Barack Obama. Only 30 percent of Americans have a favorable view of Muslims, according to a Pew Forum poll. At the same time, more than half the country says they know “not very much” or “nothing at all” about the Islamic faith. “The recent political developments and the fact that we’re fighting two wars in Muslim countries should sharpen that need to know how to talk to these guys,” Stallsmith insists “We want to find peace, reconciliation around a scriptural understanding of Jesus.”

Jesus in the Quran is neither the only-begotten Son of God nor the Messiah who was divinely appointed to restore the House of David. He is rather viewed as a prophet who was appointed by Allah to prepare mankind for the coming of Mohammad.”

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The posting of this video in no way is an endorsement of Jack Van Impe, it is posted only as further proof of the apostasy of TBN.

To highlight some of the confused beliefs of Jack Van Impe as well, he has an odd affection for the Roman Catholic church and in this video actually quotes Catholic Bishop Sheen in order to rebuke the Purpose Driven teachings of Rick Warren.

Rick Warren believes and teaches that Roman Catholic Theology is good and that all Roman Catholics including the Roman Catholic Hierarchy are a part of the Body of Christ!

So in the end what you have are two well known Evangelists: Rick Warren & Jack Van Impe, plus TBN all showing that they are part and parcel of the increasing apostasy within American Christianity, and which ever one a person decides to side with is down to a cult of personality.

As the only Biblical thing to do would be to be done with them all!

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posting this linked article is not a positive endorsement of Jack Van Impe by me, as Mr. Van Impe shows a rather odd admiration for the Pope and Roman Catholicism.

I am posting this article rather to further reveal the depths of apostasy that TBN has fallen into.

from Gay Christian Movement Watch:

If you would have told me 30 years ago that a Christian network in the future would play a part in the silencing of Godly men and women who were preaching the truth, denouncing corruption in the church and exposing liberalism and the teachers who promoted such views, I would have told you that maybe you should take a break from science fiction. But interestingly enough, that’s exactly what seems to be going on within the nation’s largest and most prominent Christian television network – the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

Sometime during the week of June 11th, long time preacher Jack Van Impe became the second casualty in recent years when he was ultimately silenced by officials at TBN for comments and opinions expressed in a taped program set to air on their network, but after viewing, was considered a violation of their network policies of offending other ministers, even though this same offending program was aired the previous Monday.

So why did TBN become unhinged about Jack’s comments in his program enough to not only reject him by not airing his program, but forbade any future programs which contained his DVD full length program, “Reclaiming and Restoring Biblical Christianity” as well as moving him to another night where the audience viewership was 25% less than his current time slot, which would ultimately give him a much lower viewing audience which ultimately means less exposure. So what could Jack Van Impe have said, or was going to say that brought down the wrath of the Crouches and ultimately silenced a significant preacher of the gospel?

The answer, it seems, was Rick Warren and Islam.

It’s no secret to many who believe in traditional conservative Biblical views that Rick Warren has ultimately forsaken the gospel for a social gospel, which is no gospel at all, but a gospel of popular ideas not founded on the word. Warren’s belief’s of the removal of the cross in most churches, his pro-Islamic stance and his purpose driven theology, all point to a complete rejection of foundational Biblical truth.

What Jack apparently did, was discuss the major points of four (4) leading emergent evangelical leaders and how they were combining their doctrines to include Islam, something that our Lord has strictly forbidden (Ephesians. 5:11) as well as expose the many false teachings that are literally running rampant within the modern church and the people who are behind these teachings. Two prominent leaders, Rick Warren and Robert Schuller, were singled out concerning their liberal teaching and why merging Christianity and Islamic teachings is not only wrong, but damaging to the body of Christ. Schuller’s pro-gay stance has increasingly become all too well known here and here.

Once Impe began to reveal exactly what was being taught by these men and why their popular and accepted views are being held by many ecumenical leaders today, and why these same views would seriously hinder the gospel, not to mention it’s devastating affects on evangelism, folks over at Trinity began to get nervous, possibly outright upset that someone like Warren, who to many within the TBN camp is idolized, would start getting their feathers ruffled at the mere notion that one of their favorite Pastors was being labeled a false teacher.

It didn’t take long before the consequences of touching TBN’s favorite Pastors would be revealed, as the official statement by Impe’s own website clearly states, “On Wednesday afternoon we received a call from Matt Crouch of TBN informing us that they would not run that program, despite having aired it Monday evening. The reason he gave was that we specifically mentioned Rick Warren and Robert Schuller and that it is TBN’s policy that broadcasters are not allowed to rebuke other ministries. This is a rather hypocritical statement in light of the fact that they have never said anything in the past when we have rebuked others such as Bishop Spong, Bishop Pike, and in the past few months Harold Camping and Rob Bell. They also stated that they would not run any future program where we offered our DVD Reclaiming & Restoring Biblical Christianity as a premium for a donation to our ministry. A DVD that exposes false teachers and the heresies that they proclaim.”

So it seems that not only is it forbidden to examine the teachings of others, it’s also forbidden to challenge any viewpoint that is currently popular and accepted by the status quo. That’s where the censoring begins. . . . .

read the full article here.

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from Discernment Research Group:

Today we begin an important series by Pastor Anton Bosch which refutes many of the humanistic and esoteric heresies running rampant in evangelicaldom about the “mind” and the “self.” It is important to address what Scripture actually says, especially in the context of the faulty emphases of “brain” and the “mind” in Rick Warren’s Daniel Plan for healthcare reform.*

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

The Christian is locked in an intense war. Many of us however, are so interested in fighting an external war with the Devil, that we forget that the most important battle is not with external forces, but within our own mind, heart and thoughts. These verses contain the keys to victory in an area where most Christians are constantly defeated.

Paul reminds us that our weapons and strategy are not fleshly or carnal. This is the first key to victory. Most Christians employ fleshly, psychological and human strategies to deal with spiritual problems. Many books that provide “seven easy steps to victory” employ human wisdom and add a few Bible verses to sanctify a system they have borrowed from the world. Strip those Bible verses out of the book or sermon and you are left with a motivational book or talk that the world will pay money to read or hear. When something is that acceptable to the world we need to question whether it is indeed authentic Christianity. I have no doubt that many of those formulas work to some extent, and for a while. They are just like the many “cures” for weight problems that are touted every day – they provide quick solutions, and may even work for a while, but in the end leave you worse-off than before.

Our battle is a spiritual one and can only be won when we employ the spiritual weapons that God has put at our disposal. Sometimes people don’t use these weapons because they seem simple, or too much like hard work. But they work because God has designed them and the Holy Spirit empowers them. In fact, the battle for (and in) your mind cannot be won unless you use the weapons God has given you.

Our weapons are mighty in God. They are powerless in and of themselves, but in God they are mighty, powerful and able to bring every thought under control. These weapons include the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17), prayer (Ephesians 6:18) and the anointing of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8).

One of the reasons we need such strong weapons is because these thought-patterns are so deeply entrenched in our minds that they literally become strongholds. Paul did not use the word “strongholds” by chance. This is the same word which Philo the philosopher (probably known to Paul) had used to describe the bastion of arrogant human reason. Philo likened this desire of man to fortify his arguments against God to the Tower of Babel. What does that all mean? It simply means that the thought-patterns that cause us to act as we do, become so powerfully entrenched in our minds that they become like military forts which are impregnable.

Have you ever tried to reason with someone who is obviously wrong (by all standards – not just your own) and realized that you are up against a stone wall? Well, that is exactly what it is. They are strongholds built out of stone. Our arguments against God’s will, His Word and His wisdom become so fortified in our minds that nothing short of a miracle is able to penetrate them.

Such strongholds are built, stone by stone, argument by argument until they become a fortress behind which we hide from God and our responsibilities. They are built over years through self-justification and rationalizing our bad behavior, addictions and unacceptable values. They are further reinforced as we fill our minds with the world and its systems and values.

Often when we come across this in a person, they will have an almost irrational denial of reality and we say such a person is irrational or emotional (as opposed to rational). But the text refers to the reason as “arguments.” (The King James Bible incorrectly refers to “imaginations”). The Greek word is logismos from the same root as “logic.” We all have rational, logical reasons why we are disobedient to the Lord.

Allow me to share some hard-earned advice. Do not even try to argue with such a person. They are not interested and will simply retreat behind the castle of their reasons and begin to fire at you with all sorts of criticism.

So what are we to do to help others? Our weapons are not human – remember? We can only allow the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to do the work. Our part is simply to pray. That is all. The Lord must change the person’s mind through His Word and Spirit and begin to tear those fortifications down.

Without God, your attempts will simply cause the person to entrench themselves even more and go over to the attack. It is hard to learn not to argue with such a person, but to simply walk away and pray and trust the Lord to deal with them. Trust me, try to “help” them and you will only buy yourself much unnecessary heartache and pain. One of the hardest things in Christian work is to hand such a person over to the Lord when we feel we should actually be doing something.

More important than others’ problems is the fact that each of us have such strongholds in our own lives. Strongholds of fear, doubt, unbelief, greed, lust, anger, addictions and the list goes on and on. There is only one place we can actively participate in this work of tearing down the strongholds and that is in our own lives. Sometimes we want to be free of the hold these things have in our lives, but often, we enjoy them and are not willing to let them go.

But the text reminds us that it is not just ourselves that are being wronged by allowing these thoughts to control us, but it is sin against The Most High. Paul speaks about “every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God” (v5). Is that not what they did at the Tower of Babel? They built this tower in defiance of the Lord. That is what we often do when we harbor these things in our minds – we allow and encourage these things to lift themselves up in rebellion against God!

If we are going to be the people God wants us to be, these strongholds must be torn down and the thoughts hiding behind them brought under control. Paul says these arguments that elevate themselves against God must be cast or pulled down.

Do you feel defeated even before you have begun? Maybe it is because you have been trying to overcome these entrenchments using human methods or in your own strength? It will not work and I hope you will have realized that by now. We need the dynamite power of the Holy Spirit to explode these fortifications. God can, and will do it – with our permission and cooperation. How? Read more in the next post….

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