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Why I Have Left the Assemblies of God

Posted in Another christ, AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Discerning the Times, Discernment, Emerging Church, Humanism, idolatry, Mega Churches, Post-Modernism, prophetic, Prosperity Gospel, Religious Babylon, Signs of The Times, Synchretism, Wolves, Word Faith on January 24, 2018| 24 Comments »

from: 828 ministries

I am speaking the truth in Christ–I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit– that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. – Romans: 1-2 (ESV)

I make no pretense to be expositing the key verses today. These are verses where Paul is expressing his dismay about how far lost his own people, the Jews, were at the time of his preaching. I cite them today only because I understand how Paul must have felt, albeit on a smaller scale. This great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart is borne witness by the Holy Spirit within me. I am not lying beloved. I try as always to speak the truth in Christ. I was saved almost 13 years to the day in an Assemblies of God church. A not so reformed and non-practicing Catholic who believed in a God without realizing I was my own God. It was a good church. A Gospel preaching church. A God-fearing church. Pentecostal and charismatic without many of the abuses that often come with it. We had a great pastor. A born evangelist with a true shepherd’s heart. A rare mix these days behind the pulpit. I went there that day with an equally unsaved friend and we both left that day in Christ. Within a month I was baptized and within a year I was in classes for ministerial credentials. Five years later I was a minister for the Assemblies and remained such until this month when I resigned those credentials. This technicality is irrelevant as my call was always from God and not man. The unceasing anguish is in leaving the only church family I have ever known. In 1962 Ronald Reagan remarked as he joined the GOP that he did not leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him. That is how I feel today. I am not leaving the AG as much as the AG has already left me. Both globally and locally. My great sorrow is that the affiliation in which I learned discernment seemingly has lost theirs. The affiliation that once bravely stood up to Jimmy Swaggart now barely stands against anything.

Beloved we must understand the backdrop, which is the times in which we live. When we see the Biblical prophecies play out every night on the news and see the moral decay spiraling out of control each day, those who have eyes to see can see that we are living in the end times. The Bible warns us very clearly about these times. There will be a great apostasy, or falling away from the faith. This is very much underway in the church today. Paul warned Timothy about this:

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. – 2Timothy 4: 3-5 (ESV)

One just needs to look at what is taught today as doctrine to see the great apostasy. People follow prosperity myths, word faith myths, hyper-grace myths, false signs and lying wonders myths just to name a few. They gather around themselves teachers who specialize in teaching these myths. They wander off by choice. They choose to fall away. Their ears itch with their own passions and want teachers who will scratch them. With this understanding we must decide what side we are on. Remember, Jesus said there are only two choices:

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. – Matthew 12: 30 (ESV)

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. – Matthew 7: 13-14 (ESV)

Narrow is the gate and few are those who find it. Think about that as you watch the next false teacher speaking to tens of thousands or claiming that entire swaths of people “gave their hearts to Christ.” There are only two choices beloved. We are either found gathering people to the Gospel or scattering them away from it. Thus doctrine becomes our critical measuring stick. Our plumb line. Who we choose to associate with becomes critical as well. Who we loan our credibility to. I once viewed Francis Chan for example to be a solid bible preacher. Once he decided to promote the wildly heretical false prophet Mike Bickle however, his preaching was no longer relevant. Remember what Paul charged the Galatians with?

You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion is not from him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. – Galatians 5: 7-9 (ESV)

A little false teaching eventually infects your theology. It spreads. It is parasitic. There can be no compromise allowed. This is not about perfection but rather purity of the Gospel. I have watched for years concerned about the direction the AG was heading in but was willing to wait and see. Anyone after all can make a mistake. Then the heresies started piling up. For me it all starts with the embracing of Rick Warren theology. The Purpose Driven Church has done more damage to the cause of Jesus Christ than anything in generations. It has eradicated the shepherd mentality amongst pastors and instead turns them into CEOs. Don’t believe me? Ask Andy Stanley, a staunch Warren adherent:

(When asked about Pastors being called shepherd) – That word needs to go away.” He added, “It was culturally relevant in the time of Jesus, but it’s not culturally relevant anymore.” – Andy Stanley (Leadership Journal, “Get-it-Done Leadership,” May 2006).

This began the slippery slope of growing churches but not the kingdom. The Assemblies embraced the Purpose Driven Life as well and coordinated their churches to all read it together. Something we even did at my church at the time. This is the same book that only addresses salvation one time and presents a nine word “sinner’s prayer” that is followed by an absurdly presumptuous – “Welcome to the family of God!”

Fast forward a few years and the AG tried to coordinate their churches again for a group reading. This time it was a book written by one of their own pastors, Mark Batterson. The Circle Maker is nothing but rank heresy. Based upon a fable found in the Mishnah, Batterson tries to change how Christians pray from being reverent to being petulant. The act of drawing circles is also taken directly from witchcraft. That does not mean the Mr. Batterson intended this. Intent however is irrelevant. The Circle Maker remains to this day a black eye upon the Assemblies. Then there are the associations the AG has chosen to make. Who they have aligned themselves with. Many are not aware of “Empowered 21,” which is self described as:

“The Empowered21 Global Council is an esteemed group of International Christian leaders, co-chaired by George Wood and Billy Wilson. These leaders give inspirational oversight to13 Regional Cabinets across the world and seeks to provide resources to address the crucial issues faced by the Spirit-empowered church.”

So the General Superintendent of the General Council of the Assemblies of God in America is the co-chair of this international coalition. Problem? Not until you see who are part of its leadership:

Bill Johnson, Reinhard Bonnke, Lisa Bevere, Kenneth Copeland, Jentezen Franklin, Brian Houston, Cindy “The General” Jacobs, Robert Morris, Phil Pringle to name a few. This is a who’s-who of false teachers and wannabe prophets. I guess Osteen, Warren and Prince were just too busy. Seriously. Why in the world would you co chair this smorgasbord of heresy? Why would you even want to be on the same website? Bill Johnson believes in grave sucking the residual anointing from dead false teachers. He runs his own school for the supernatural where he teaches people the gifts of the spirit – pure blasphemy! Robert Morris abuses his sheep and tells them to pay him his tithes before paying their rent or bills or medicine or else God will curse all of their money! General Cindy Jacobs? Are you serious? Kenneth Copeland and Brian Houston? The Assemblies should know better. Reinhard Bonnke? International charlatan who brags about raising the dead? The AG threw a banquet in his honor recently. These are not fringe elements in apostasy. These are the leaders beloved.

Then there was the extremely poor decision to get into bed with ex-Catholic mystic Roma Downey and her heretical “AD Miniseries.” When I say in bed I mean under the covers. The AG actively marketed the “church kit” that Downey was selling which turned over your local church to this miniseries for 12 weeks. Each week they would provide you with a video sermon given by a Christian celebrity to match that week’s episode. The third lesson was done by none other than George Wood. Other notable teachers in the series were the aforementioned Mark Batterson and the Hillsong false teacher, Christine Caine. The teaching aside, the actual miniseries was a disaster biblically. It was clear that one of the goals Downey had was to overstate the role of women and make any leading male character out to either be a wimp or psychotic. Beloved we are not talking about artistic license. This series simply did not correctly represent the Bible. I can understand someone who is unsaved not understanding the point but I am talking about the actual story. Mary for example did not have to convince the disciples to wait the three days for when Jesus said He would rise again. Without getting too bogged down in the detail this was another example of very poor decision making by the Assemblies regarding who they want to be found in league with.

It was no wonder then that this past year at their annual General Council one of their speakers was Christine Caine. Never mind that she is from Hillsong, the largest international heretical organization on the planet. Never mind that she is an ardent supporter of someone like Joyce Meyer. Never mind that after “shadowing” Meyer for a week she tweeted a picture of herself laying hands upon the Bible of Joyce Meyer and praying for “an impartation of her “teaching anointing and revelation.” The same Meyer who teaches Jesus went to hell and had to be born again there. The same Meyer who teaches that she never sins. The same Meyer who teaches that we are all little gods. It is no wonder then that the quote that hit the Internet from Caine that night which was taken as some deep nugget of wisdom was:

“The size of your ministry is determined by the size of your heart.” – Christine Caine

Not determined by God. Not determined by the Holy Spirit. Not determined by correct doctrine or preaching the correct Gospel. No beloved. Determined by the size of our wickedly deceptive hearts. Therein sums up the progression of falling away I have witnessed within the Assemblies for the past several years. They bought into the Warren theologies of growth and marketing. They bought into the seeker friendly notions of church growth. They continued to make whatever associations were popular and gained them more exposure with seemingly little concern about doctrine. As a minister for the Assemblies, I am expected to support them and in complete fairness I can no longer do so.

That is the global scene if you will. It is the scene everyone sees on television and being reported. What is often lost however is the local scene. We all belong locally before we belong globally. There are still some very good AG churches out there beloved. Churches who are trying to do the right thing and preach the whole Gospel. Eventually they will have to come out from among them if the Assemblies does not stop its free-fall. Locally however, the politics are even worse. The disregard for correct doctrine is widely accepted as long as you can put bodies in the seats each week. Never mind if people leave. That is a Warren principle taught in the Purpose Driven Church called “Blessed Subtraction.” This principle teaches pastors that it is OK to let sheep wander away from your flock as long as you replace them. Talk about not understanding the 99 and the one! But this point is vitally important because Purpose Driven teachings insist that we are no long in the business of reaching the unsaved but rather the unchurched. That may sound subtle but it is purely a satanic plot. Instead of focusing on their salvation pastors now focus on whether they belong to a church. Instead of focusing on their relationship to Jesus they focus on their relationship to ministry. That is why Blessed Subtraction is so widely accepted theologically even though it violates the entire Bible! As long as you replace the body then the church has not “lost” anything. But what about the sheep that wandered off?

I have watched such local abuses and continue to see them to this day. I know hundreds of people devastated by Christian leaders and a church that swore they loved them as Christ does but then casually left the pen door open and kicked them out into the cold. I heard a pastor once preach that if a congregant had a problem with someone else they need to leave. From the pulpit this was said. During a sermon. I have watched congregations be eviscerated of anyone who was biblically literate. Anyone who dared to ask any questions. Anyone who even mildly objected. I have watched Elder Boards be launching pads for ministerial preaching careers from people who have no business dividing the Word of Truth. What does the Assemblies do about it?

Absolutely nothing.

In fairness, the overall Assemblies has little power over the churches in their fellowship. The power remains at the local level and that is not necessarily a bad thing if you are ensuring the biblical authority of your ministers. Instead however the local assemblies becomes this game of politics and productivity. If a pastor is seen as a producer, meaning he can refill the seats of those who leaves and grow his church, then doctrine or abuses can be nodded and winked at. Meanwhile the landscape is littered with bloody sheep, many of whom will never set foot in a church again. It is for these local reasons and the people who cry out from their abuses that I also feel compelled to walk away. I have close friends and acquaintances who were set into spiritual tailspins, seemingly never to recover. Every month seems to brings to light a new victim locally and a new doctrinal abuse globally. And beloved, please understand that this is not a broad brush I intend to paint with. As I have said there are plenty of good AG churches and ministers who preach the uncompromised Word of God and are led by real shepherds. This is also not personal in nature, even though I could recount my own personal tales of abuse. It is not about me. It is about the sheep of the Lord and the primacy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In good conscience I cannot continue to write that believers need to come out from among the falseness in the church today and continue to proudly claim affiliation to an organization that has lost its way. I will pray for the AG because I love the AG. I ask that you do the same. I pray that this once proud organization returns to its roots of uncompromised Gospel preachers. Time is running out.

Reverend Anthony Wade – January 16, 2016

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Sacramento Assembly of God pastor “builds bridges” across religions

Posted in abominations, Another christ, Anti-Christ, AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Discernment, Elitism, Emerging Church, False Christians, False Teachers, Humanism, Islam, Judaism, Mega Churches, Moonbats, Post-Modernism, prophetic, Religious Babylon, Signs of The Times, Synchretism, Wolves on July 17, 2014| 1 Comment »

There is so much wrong with what this “Pastor” is saying. He lumps perceptions about political party allegiance (As if Christians are supposed to declare a public political allegiance to either of the fallen humanistic led American political parties)  in with a multitude of other errors.

What he displays is the classic Assembly of  God second generation “priestly class” humanist mentality. One that says “I was born into the AOG priesthood to an AOG Pastor and therefore it is my right and destiny to be in that class so I can lead people wherever I choose”.  This type of thinking is a cancer in the Assembly of God Ministry!

Everyone who reads this needs to look at your own church. Even if you have a pastor that preaches and teaches what is right and good NOW. If it is a situation where “the pastor is master” then 99% of those pastors will go down the road to error in order to maintain their “high place” instead of being scorned, shunned, and pushed aside for standing up for Biblical truth. Our churches heap praise on pastors and feed their humanistic egos which overtakes their love for the truth!

“God never intended for a Pastor to be a “King”. Sadly, this is what most congregations want just as Israel wanted a king. They want someone to tell them what to do instead of taking responsibility to do it themselves. They are satisfied to live their spirituality vicariously through the Pastor, their king. This Pastor has obviously taken on that role and is now leading an entire congregation into the depths of deception. It is absolutely heartbreaking!”

 

from The Sacramento Bee:

A Pentecostal pastor, a rabbi and an imam walk into a restaurant. Then they go to a synagogue. For Ramadan, Pastor Rick J. Cole of Capital Christian Center – one of the region’s oldest and largest fundamentalist churches – gave a sermon to about 500 Muslims and their friends at the Sunrise Event Center in Rancho Cordovaon Friday.

Cole, 56, was a featured guest on Imam M.A. Azeez’s weekly talk show, “Heart of the Matter.” The show has explored women’s rights, justice, self-expression and democracy in the Muslim world.

Cole, whose 98-year-old Assemblies of God church was long considered the most conservative in the region, has been reaching out to gays, Jews and now Muslims to break down barriers and biases. Cole joined Azeez and Rabbi Mona Alfi at Congregation B’nai Israel on June 18 to mark the 15th anniversary of the one of the most heinous – and ultimately unifying – events in Sacramento history, the pre-dawn firebombing of three Sacramento synagogues. Those blazes were followed by the firebombing of a building housing an abortion clinic and the murder of a gay couple – Gary Matson and and Winfield Mowder – while they slept in their Happy Valley home in rural Shasta County.

Cole, who replaced his father, the late Pastor Glen D. Cole, at the helm of Capital Christian Center in 1995, told the audience at B’nai Israel he’d been to Israel seven times and asked forgiveness of those he may have had been intolerant toward. “I’m now intolerant of people who are intolerant. I’ve got to figure out how to tolerate intolerant people,” Cole said. “We make things about issues instead of people,” he said, adding that he now has a growing number of gay congregants. As for those who don’t accept believers of different faiths or sexual orientation, “if they’ve got a problem, I’m not going to let it become my problem. They really need to talk to more people!”

Cole – whose church’s motto is “Truth, Growth, Love” – has 7,000 congregants, about 4,000 of whom attend one of his three Sunday sermons. Some of them speak in tongues. He oversees the 1,000 students at his church’s Christian school; serves on the board of Sacramento Steps Forward, a partnership addressing the needs of the region’s homeless; and provides help to inner-city schoolchildren through Equal Start. He also works with Champions, which assists special-needs families, and he supports the Center for AIDS Research.

What’s inspired you to step outside the box and reach across the aisle?

Rabbi Alfi, Imam Azeez and I started meeting for lunch at Plates (a restaurant that trains homeless moms) three years ago. Rather than assuming things about each other, we’ve developed a good friendship through direct communication. Too often we stereotype groups and determine this is the way everyone is within that group. There are many people of the Muslim faith who are not interested in violence. Often, they become characterized that way by 9/11 and other incidents that have occurred. There are far fewer Muslim people of faith who embrace extremism than those who are pushing it away. Imam Azeez has become a friend, I see him as a man of hopes and dreams for building a better world and not for tearing it down. The more common ground we can all find, and the more we learn about each other’s belief systems, the more we grow. Friday, I said, “I know the Quran is a great source of wisdom in understanding who God is. We share four of the five pillars of Islam: there is only one God; daily prayers; give to the poor and help the hurting; and fasting, self-control and self discipline.”

Your church has long been considered a bastion of conservatism. What’s changed?

We still lean toward a Republican ideology, but today we have strong representation across the aisle. We have a real passion for ethnic diversity, and people of other ethnicities often tend to adopt a more Democratic ideology. When we blend together different points of view, that’s quite important in challenging how we come together. … There are so many things that divide us ethnically, socioeconomically, spiritually. Part of my role and goal is to unify and honor people, bless people and affirm people.

In the 1980s, Capital Christian Center threatened to quit the Interfaith Service Bureau for admitting a gay-oriented church, and in the 1990s gay and bisexual protesters accused you of “a long history of anti-gay political activity and bigotry.” What’s happened since?

It’s something I’ve grown into the last five or six years. Life is a journey, and we should always be learning and growing along the way. It’s OK to have strong beliefs and convictions, but when we make that the only message, it becomes a dividing line that doesn’t help us build community with others who don’t see things quite the way we do. I had a revelation that God wants us to find ways to love people and not separate them. God’s heart of love for each of us is equal. Homosexuality’s still a complex subject and can cause some to be judgmental. I can maintain convictions but don’t have to impose those convictions on people who don’t share them.

If we take homosexuality as an issue, we dehumanize the person, and I don’t believe God ever does that. God loves each of us right where we are. In the past we have chosen to communicate a certain belief from scripture that homosexuality is not acceptable to God and push that way, instead of leading with, “God loves you and we do too.” I’ve adopted a love for gay people from my own heart, and we have a really great dialogue about faith and how we can encourage one another along the way. Our church has gone from where we wouldn’t know if we had any gay congregants to where we know we have at least several dozen, and instead of being afraid to come here, God wants us to make this a safe place for people to grow.

In 2009, you apologized to Christina Silvas, a former stripper who’d been asked to remove her children from your school in 2001, and to Ben Sharpe, an African American star student who was banned from eighth-grade graduation because his buzz cut violated school policy in 1995. Who are the intolerant you’ve got to learn to tolerate?

There’s a lot of intolerance when it comes to ideas – the political atmosphere in our country is so polarized. It would do us all good if we could have more conversations instead of accusations. Immigration is obviously a great concern – we have to have a heart of compassion for these children coming every day. The more grace we have for others, the more grace we receive. I’m concerned about those who want to make this issue non-human – these are precious people and we need to try and put ourselves in their shoes and practice empathy and see the world through their lens – ‘What if it were me?’ There are those who want to build a utopian world for ourselves. That’s not what we’re here for; we’re here to help each other.

It’s an evolving understanding of our role and how we pursue our place in the community. We aim to heal people who have walked through broken dreams, broken relationships, broken health, and give them a place to find hope and purpose. If we reach out to the hurting, the disadvantaged, the underserved, the overlooked, that’s more in the sweet spot on God’s heart. We have a really passionate outreach to the homeless, and we’re partnering with four inner-city schools, providing mentoring, tutoring, after-school care and encouragement. In the summer, we take kids … to places they’ve never been, ending up at various universities for a sit-down with administrators. My goal is to honor God, his truth and his creation. I’m not trying to push any buttons and create controversy. I really want to bring harmony.

 

 

 

 

 

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A Prophetic Warning

Posted in AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Babylon, Christian Living, Days of Noah, Discerning the Times, Discernment, Doctrine of Balaam, Emerging Church, False Christians, False Prophets, False Teachers, Humanism, idolatry, Mammon, Mega Churches, Perplexity, Persecuted Church, Post-Modernism, prophetic, Prosperity Gospel, Religious Babylon, Signs of The Times, Wolves on March 4, 2014| 5 Comments »

“I believe we are nearing the time of persecution in our nation. When the only public voices for Christianity are apostate religious church leaders and organizations, I believe that the net of persecution will then fall on the American Church very swiftly. The true Church is being scattered—slowly and systematically. Right now I do not know of one medium or even small Church of true believers that is standing against the current apostasy. I also do not know of any highly visible professing Christian that is doing so.”

from TruthKeepers:

A Prophetic Warning to the Church (March 4, 2003 1:56 pm)

In my opinion every true follower of Jesus Christ needs to be completely aware of the time that we are living in. If we are not in the last-days, then it is a trial run that is so close that the dangers are nearly identical. Therefore, we need to take heed of the many warnings in God’s Word concerning the great time of deception.

First, we need to recognize how powerful that the deception will be. It will be so powerful that the only means of surviving it will be the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
(Mat 24:24 NKJV) “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Satan will pull out all the stops, hold back nothing, pour out everything in his bag of dirty tricks, and the spiritual atmosphere will be too strong for people who have not spiritually prepared themselves to resist it.
(2 Th 2:9-12 NKJV) The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, {10} and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, {12} that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The spiritual atmosphere will be diametrically opposed to the atmosphere of a great revival. During times of great revival even lost people feel the effects of the renewal of passion for God. During great revivals, sin is driven back into the darkness. Evil workers are exposed for the charlatans that they are. False doctrine is denounced. Prayer meetings and church services take precedence over secular activities. Even the laws of the nation are reflective of the revival.

Today, there are deep doldrums in Christianity. Liars and other phonies are honored while at the same time people who speak the truth are dishonored and persecuted. Homosexuals are ordained as Christian ministers and professing Christians are accepting their ministry. There is little passion for God or His Word manifested publicly. Sodomites not only are pouring out of the darkness to stand proudly in public view, but they have infected our government, public education, and almost every other area of society. False doctrines pour from pulpits, out of religious television, lining the bookshelves of religious bookstores, and inundate the entire religious realm. Practically no one will attend a prayer meeting. Even a school event can replace a church meeting. Our nation’s laws are becoming increasingly reflective of the satanic activity in our government.

I personally know pastors who have given up trying to pastor in this atmosphere. I know other pastors who appear to be just barely hanging on. Many professing Christians are simply flowing with the degradation of the great apostasy; marching to the cadence of Satan. Other Christians are feeling the overwhelming effects of it all. They cannot find an honest assembly of true followers of Christ. Every day they fight feelings of discouragement and depression. The joy of the Lord is very difficult to express and they battle daily with feelings of hopelessness, emptiness, and isolation.

This is the time that we have been warned about. We should understand that every godly act and characteristic is going to be more difficult to perform and maintain. Prayer is a battle. Temptation to loosen ones grip on eternal life is constant and pressing. Urges to relax and roll with the flow, follow the herd, do what everyone else is doing, never ceases the attempt to infiltrate our spirits. Evil workers of unrighteousness appear as workers of righteousness. In fact, it is difficult in some cases to tell the difference on the surface. They appear as ministers and people of righteousness. One should remember to listen to the Holy Spirit warning signals in their spirit. Consider their fruit. What have they ever done for Christ? Ignore how they make you feel or their flattering words and comforting ways. Reject the sensationalism of lying signs and wonders. Remember that few people are driven to hell. Most of them are led there by deceptive spirits.
(2 Cor 11:12-15 NKJV) But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. {13} For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. {14} And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. {15} Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

God’s Word declares that the one act that will doom people to deception and delusion is rejecting love for the truth. The very thing that could save those who are deceived is the thing that they reject. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. If He is in us, we will not be deceived. We can walk through barrenness and never thirst or hunger. We will be filled with righteousness. We can master the deceptive time and rise above the clouds of evil lying signs and wonders.

When people reject love for the truth, the Holy Spirit will depart. They will be left to their own devices to defend themselves against the great deception of the last-days. God will not permit them to be shocked into returning to the truth. If they will not receive His love, His Word, His Son, and His Spirit, they do not deserve heaven. Neither do they deserve to be driven into heaven by specter of fearful calamities. Instead, they will be sent a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie and be damned.

In times past, when catastrophic events occurred, people flocked to church services in fear for their souls. Oklahoma City churches reported huge increases in attendance after the Murrah building was bombed. In a few months, the attendance was back to normal. Evidently, those people went back to their old ways of living under the cloud of deception. The very striking fact about the aftermath of 9-11-01 was that many people did not look to Christian leaders for comfort and answers. Instead, they flocked to events where an evil ecumenical mixture of wizards, witches, and other evil workers of darkness joined with professing Christians to pray for the nation. We saw no increase in attendance in our Fellowship.

This may indicate that the great delusion has been delivered to the earth and the package may be opened. If so, people who stand in the shadows, who are trying to live on the fringes of true Christianity, who play on both sides of the fence, who fail to develop passion and intimacy with God, are in deep, serious, trouble. We were warned by God’s Word and His prophets that this time would come. In my opinion, it is here. I encourage everyone not to settle for a casual relationship with God. Don’t settle for a passionless, nonchalant, church meeting where you are not inspired or challenged to stay fresh in your relationship with God. Don’t let your guard down. The hour is late and the time is short. Stand your ground and keep your armor on.

It is going to get very difficult in the last of the last-days, but the most dangerous time is during this initial wave of deception. The reason is because we have gotten used to the blessings of Christianity in a democratic nation. We can get in our vehicles on Sunday morning and there are many church buildings within a short drive from our homes. Someone else preaches to us, teaches us, and does almost every other thing for us. All we have to do is show up. What kind of Christians has this type of “Churchanity” produced? I do not mean to be offensive here, but for the sake of clarity I must be blunt with my answer. In most cases it has produced people that cannot take care of themselves spiritually. Instead, they depend on the three-per-week (or less) church services to keep them spiritual and inspired, and most of them only attend occasionally. They are weak, pampered, religious at the best, and at the worst they are lost, malformed and mutated by years of lack of growth and a viable experience with God. As such, they are no threat to the kingdom of darkness and no benefit to the kingdom of light.

Now, we are going to have to adapt steadfastness of faith to the harshness of the time that we are in. Christians should have been building themselves spiritually during the times of peace. If we had been actually assimilating and applying the Word of God that we have been inundated with, then we would have more than been prepared for this evil time.

We’ve been taught to be weak, to live weak, to need church meetings to a degree that God never intended. Certainly we find strength in fellowship and it is a tremendous blessing to hear the Word of God taught or preached by someone who is anointed. But if we have not developed the practice of feeding ourselves, what are we going to do in the tough times? Paralyzed people and babies have to be fed, but healthy and mature people feed themselves.

Men need to become and remain strong in the Lord and begin taking responsibility for their spiritual duties. The time is coming when men will have to teach their own families. We need to get tough, knowledgeable, and spiritually strong. All of us need to become prayer intercessors. I believe that it is time to consider what is eating up our time and make some serious choices about our activities. If it comes to the point that we cannot find a church building to meet in where God is present and people are sincere, then the only option is to meet in our homes. However, there were times when the Church was even denied that privilege. They had to meet in catacombs and other places that do not even remotely resemble a church building.

I believe we are nearing the time of persecution in our nation. When the only public voices for Christianity are apostate religious church leaders and organizations, I believe that the net of persecution will then fall on the American Church very swiftly. The true Church is being scattered—slowly and systematically. Right now I do not know of one medium or even small Church of true believers that is standing against the current apostasy. I also do not know of any highly visible professing Christian that is doing so.

I could say a lot more, but let me conclude with one more point. The key to understanding that this current apostasy is not going to be resisted by most professing Christians is in the way most of them perceive Christianity. The only way that so many hirelings could be in pastorates is if most of the people want it to be this way. I heard one of the deadest sermons I have ever heard one Sunday morning while visiting a church meeting. A toxic religious mixture oozed from the pulpit and entered the hearts of people who loved to be poisoned so. The sad thing about that church is that it is growing steadily in number. I thought the man might be sick, but I was informed that he was in good health. In other words, he preached that way on purpose. This is the standard for most church meetings today. It does not resemble biblical Christianity. What it is I cannot tell. What it is not is a meeting of true Christians who are aware of the time and striving for intimacy with God. May God help us to understand what is happening!
The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule by their own power; And My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end? (Jer 5:31 NKJV)

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The Dividing Line

Posted in AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Discerning the Times, Discernment, Emerging Church, Humanism, Post-Modernism, prophetic on March 3, 2014| 2 Comments »

from Truth Keepers:

There has been enough said and written about the “Son of God” movie to convince people who are willing to listen to truth. The ones who believe it is a good movie will not change their minds. People that cannot recognize the issues with the movie before they watch it will probably not detect anything wrong about it after they watch it. Nothing I can add will make a difference either way. God does not force people to follow Him, and neither can we force them to accept the truth. The dividing line has been drawn.

The most disconcerting factor in the situation is the unwillingness of people to even consider the facts and God’s word. Instead of saying, “Well I didn’t know that, please tell me more”, they go on the attack. I’m used to being called names, accused of being everything from a heretic to demoniac, but not to the extent that I received during the past few days. The synopsis of most responses minus the diatribes is, “I don’t care what you say, I don’t want to hear it, I like the movie” ala Matthew Hagee. I can’t argue with that.

It appears that everyone that has spent the past decade ignoring the warnings are incapable of hearing them now. I don’t know all the reasons they chose that path. For some it was bad soteriology and for others bad eschatology. Some professing Christians have become so enamored by the world system that they have no taste for things spiritual. The Apostle Paul wrote concerning endtimes professing Christians:

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

Finally, there is this word from David Wilkerson.

I keep this foremost in my mind and before my eyes, because every minister of the gospel one day has to face it when he stands before the Lord. He will say, “Son of man, I made thee a watchman. You were to hear the words of My mouth and give them warnings from Me. You were to tell the wicked, ‘Thou shalt surely die.’ And you gave them no warning nor spoke to warn the wicked to turn from their wicked ways to save their lives. These same wicked men died in their sins, but their blood I’ll require at your hands.”

The rest of the message can be found at the following link. True Discernment

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How do I identify my spiritual gift?

Posted in abominations, AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Atheism, Discernment, Humanism, Post-Modernism, Synchretism on October 19, 2012| 1 Comment »

Believe it or not, the Assembly of God use the “Myers-Briggs” test in their “We Build People” adult education program as a way for people to find their “spiritual gift”. It is how spiritually blind the AOG has become. Myers-Briggs was developed from the theories proposed by Carl Gustav Jung who was an atheist!

1 Corinthians 2:13- 16:

These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

from Got Questions:

There is no magic formula or definitive test that can tell us exactly what our spiritual gifts are. The Holy Spirit distributes the gifts as He determines (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). A common problem for Christians is the temptation to get so caught up in our spiritual gift that we only seek to serve God in the area in which we feel we have been gifted. That is not how the spiritual gifts work. God calls us to obediently serve Him in all things. He will equip us with whatever gift or gifts we need to accomplish the task He has called us to.

Identifying our spiritual giftedness can be accomplished in various ways. Spiritual gift tests or inventories, while not to be fully relied upon, can  definitely help us understand where our gifting might be. Confirmation from others also gives light to our spiritual giftedness. Other people who see us serving the Lord can often identify a spiritual gift in use that we might take for granted or not recognize. Prayer is also important. The one person who knows exactly how we are spiritually gifted is the gift-giver Himself—the Holy Spirit. We can ask God to show us how we are gifted in order to better use our spiritual gifts for His glory.

Yes, God calls some to be teachers and gives them the gift of teaching. God calls some to be servants and blesses them with the gift of helps.  However, specifically knowing our spiritual gift does not excuse us from serving God in areas outside our gifting. Is it beneficial to know what spiritual gift(s) God has given us? Of course it is. Is it wrong to focus so much on spiritual gifts that we miss other opportunities to serve God? Yes. If we are dedicated to being used by God, He will equip us with the spiritual gifts we need.

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Assembly of God that Staged Kidnapping and Armed Raid now faces Criminal Charges

Posted in AOG, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Current Events, Discernment, Humanism, Moonbats, Signs of The Times on August 4, 2012| Leave a Comment »

This is the farce that the Assembly of God has degenerated into!

from The Daily Mail:

A youth pastor, as well as his church is facing criminal charges for a mock kidnapping of a youth group that was meant to be a lesson in religious persecution.

The Glad Tidings Assembly of God in Middletown, Pennsylvania, as well as 28-year-old Andrew David Jordan were charged with false imprisonment and simple assault, authorities said.

The church staged the event in March. Mock kidnappers covered the teenagers’ heads, put them in a van, and interrogated them. Neither the young people nor their parents were told beforehand that it wasn’t real.

The mother of a 14-year-old girl, identified only as K.T., filed a complaint with police after she returned from the ‘object lesson’ traumatised and covered in bruises, and with a cut lip.

According to the York Daily Record, K.T. had been attending events at the Glad Tidings Assembly for less than a month.

‘This is a sad case for all those involved,’ Dauphin County District Attorney Ed Marsico told the Associated Press, adding that while the church’s and Jordan’s intentions were not necessarily harmful, ‘they in essence terrorized several children.’

‘We need to protect children, no matter where the harm occurs,’ Mr Marsico said, adding that a grand jury recommended the charges. He noted that some of the teenagers in the group were not members of the church, and that a semi-automatic rifle was displayed in the exercise.

A message left at the church was not immediately returned, and there was no phone listing for Jordan. Neither had defence attorneys listed on court papers

The girl, who has asked to remain anonymous, described her terror to abc27.com in March: ‘They pulled my chair out from underneath me, and then they told me to get on the ground,’ she told the station.  ‘I had my hands behind my back. They said, `Just do as I say, and you won’t be hurt.’’

The girl said she and about 17 other teens were taken to the pastor’s house, where it appeared he was being assaulted, covered in what looked to be blood.

Eventually, she said, the adults in charge revealed it was a staged event, telling the traumatized teenagers that Christians in other countries battle with realities like that every day.

One of the two ‘kidnappers’ was an off-duty police officer who was carrying a real gun, according to abc27.com. However, the gun was unloaded at the time of the raid.

The girl was shocked that no one told her and the rest of the youth group the raid was only a drill. ‘They heard me crying,’ the girl said. ‘Why not right then and there tell us it was a joke, when you see me crying?’

Glad Tidings Assembly of God’s pastor, John Lanza, told the Associated Press in March that the church is ‘so saddened’ that the girl was traumatized at the youth meeting.

But he said his intent was never harmful – instead, it was designed to prepare them for what they might encounter as missionaries.

Lanza didn’t disclose the names of those involved but said the mock kidnappers included an off-duty police officer and a retired Army captain.

‘It was a youth event, to illustrate what others have encountered on a regular basis,’ he said, adding that the focus of the lesson was ‘the persecuted church’ in other countries.

Lanza said there were about 17 students at the meeting and the mock kidnappers covered the students’ heads, put them in a van and interrogated them.

Neither the students nor their parents were told about the raid beforehand, he said, though it was discussed with the parents of one youth who might have health issues.

Lanza said the church has conducted similar events at least twice before, adding that ‘there was much thought given to the safety aspect.’

‘If anyone was ever uncomfortable, they would be removed’ from the exercise, Lanza said, though part of the idea was to shock the students with the experience.

Lower Swatara Township police Chief Richard Wiley declined to comment until an investigation into the raid is complete. The names of the mother and daughter who complained haven’t been made public.

There could be consequences if the teens didn’t know what was going to happen and didn’t agree to be a part of the event, Dauphin County First Deputy District Attorney Fran Chardo said.

Tom Copeland, who studies international affairs and terrorism at Geneva College, a Beaver Falls school that emphasizes a ‘Christian worldview,’ questioned the wisdom of submitting a youth group to a mock kidnapping.

‘It just seems inappropriate for that age group. You would think there would be permission from the parents,’ Copeland said, adding that he’s never heard of anything like that happening at a church.

He said that while there have been highly publicized episodes of violence directed against Christian missionaries in other countries, it seems those countries’ local religious groups are more at risk.

Lanza said members of the church have made numerous mission trips overseas and have learned to be cautious. He said they were planning a trip to Mexico but reviewed current news and advisories and decided it was unsafe.

Lanza said he ‘would love to’ apologize to the girl and her mother but feels he can’t until the police investigation is done.

He said the church wants to keep doing the program but would make changes.

‘I would find a way that we could continue to keep the shock value,’ he said, ‘but I would find a way to inform the parents (beforehand).’

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Warning! False “Hebrew Roots” Teaching Beware!

Posted in abominations, Another christ, Anti-Christ, AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Discernment, False Christians, Humanism, Judaism, Post-Modernism, prophetic, Religious Babylon, Signs of The Times on June 6, 2012| 6 Comments »

Hebrew Roots teaching is all the rage right now, you are seeing a large number of false teachers running about telling Christians that they cannot properly understand God’s Word or be able to “Rightly Divide” the word unless they understand the Original Hebrew and or keep all of the Jewish Festivals and Old Covenant laws.

As the Apostle Paul said in Galatians 1:6-9:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,  which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

And: Galatians 2: 19-21:

For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.  I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

And: Galatians 3:1-4:

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among youas crucified?  This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

And: Galatians 4:21-26:

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?  For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

And finally: Galatians 5:1-2

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.  2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

One such false “Hebrew Roots” teacher is a “Dr.” Roy Blizzard, his false teaching is infecting many pentecostal churches due to their abandonment of  Biblical Doctrine in favor of any lying spirit that will make them shake, utter gibberish and have a warm fuzzy feeling!

His false teaching has even infected a former “church” that my family and I attended.

“Dr.” Blizzard has an affectation for Rabbinical Jewish Teachings, and he teaches that to properly understand God’s Word not only must you understand Hebrew but you must interpret that Hebrew using Rabbinical Jewish Teachings.

Not many Christians know it today, but all Rabbinical Jewish Teachings find their origin in the Oral Tradition or Oral Law of the Pharisees. After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 A.D., Pharisaic beliefs became the liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism. The Mishnah written around 220 A.D. put into written form those oral traditions.

In Galatians the Apostle Paul is warning new Christians about some who were coming in after he had established the Church in Galatia, and convincing the new Christians in Galatia that they needed to be circumcised and follow the Oral and Written Jewish Law as interpreted by the Pharisees.

This “Dr’ Roy Blizzard is doing the same thing, I have posted an article from him below on Genesis 3:1-7:.

Now to give you some context “Dr’ Blizzard does not believe that Satan exists! He uses modern Rabbinical (Pharisaic oral tradition) teaching to say that Satan, the Devil is actually just allegorical terms for the bad side of human nature, known in Rabbinical Jewish Teaching as the “Yetzer Hara” or evil inclination.

Read the article below and weep for the Christians who are being seduced by this false teacher attempting to drag Christians from the liberty that they have in Christ to the Bondage of Rabbinical Jewish Teachings.

From Bible Scholars:

Genesis 3:1-7

By: Roy B. Blizzard Posted: June 04 2012

The Passage in Translation for today is going to be Genesis 3:1-7.

Biblical commentators have found extreme difficulty in explaining this passage and especially the nature of the serpent. Some commentators have suggested that the serpent was Satan; one who was separate from God and in opposition to God.

In popular thought and language, the concept of evil is strongly associated with the serpent and hence the serpent is chosen out of the animal world as a symbol of evil. However, we must not regard the serpent as an independent entity in opposition to God. A special characteristic that the Bible attributes to the serpent is “cunning.” Since there is no other quality ascribed to him, the intent is to convey that the evil flowing from the serpent emanated only from his cunning. In the ultimate analysis, we have here an allegorical illusion to the craftiness to be found in man himself. That is, the duologue between the serpent and the woman is actually in a manner of speaking, a duologue that took place in the woman’s mind between her wiliness and her innocence clothed in the garb of a parable.

In reality, it is not the serpent that thinks and speaks but the woman who does so in her heart. There is a play in Hebrew on words between the word “cunning” arum and “naked” arummin. They were naked because of their ignorance of good and evil, or their lack of knowledge. However, they were not lacking in cunning. The woman emphasizes that the tree from which they were forbidden to eat was in the center of the garden. And, she adds the additional statement that God had said, “neither shall you touch it,” which of course he had not. But the clause “neither shall you touch it” is simply synonymous with the preceding clause “ye shall not eat thereof.” The woman concludes that the underlying cause must be none other than God’s jealousy. He who knows everything does not wish his creatures to possess the same knowledge as himself.

It seems to be the way of the world for the man to be easily swayed by the woman. However, the man was with her and evidently consenting to the action all the time.

In truth, their eyes were opened but the outcome was not what they had expected. They had hoped that by eating the fruit they would obtain divine knowledge. The cognition that had seemed so desirable to them as to warrant the transgression of God’s precept was vastly different from what they had originally imagined. The first knowledge that they acquired led not to edification but to shame. There is much to be learned from this passage and what follows. But, perhaps we can conclude with “Be careful! What you ask you may get it.”

… to be continued

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Joel Osteen “prays” (to someone or something) for Perry, & believes Romney is a “Christian”

Posted in abominations, Another christ, AOG, cults, Discernment, False Christians, False Prophets, Humanism, Moonbats, Mormonism, Osteenism's, prophetic, Signs of The Times, Wolves, Word Faith on October 27, 2011| Leave a Comment »

Everytime this man opens his mouth he displays his ignorance and proof that he has zero knowledge of God’s Word

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Assemblies of God Serial Bullies from the Pulpit

Posted in abominations, Another christ, AOG, Apostasy, Assembly of God in Apostasy, Christian Persecution, Discerning the Times, Elitism, False Christians, heavy shepherding, Humanism, prophetic, Signs of The Times, Wolves on January 20, 2011| Leave a Comment »

from Perfect Peace Plan:

NY SUPREME COURT RULING SLAMS ASSEMBLIES OF GOD
LEADERS WOOD AND DURST WHO HIJACKED LOCAL CHURCH

. . . . . Not satisfied with the destruction they have already wrought, the AOG is taking them to court again: Notice of Appeal was filed in the Appellate Div. of St. Lawrence County Supreme Court against local AOG Church. . . .

…

. . . . . All of these Scriptures apply to all Christians in the church throughout the Church Age.  But apparently George Wood, General Superintendent to the Assemblies of God, and Duane Durst, District Superintendent of New York District of Assemblies of God do not apply these Scriptures to themselves. 

However, even the chief Apostle Paul himself did not seize or hijack local churches, so how does any pastor, general superintendent, district superintendent, or bishop have the biblical authority to do so?  Durst and Wood have also defied Paul’s instructions in which he TWICE gave instructions for giving financially to the church, diametrically opposed to what the AOG compels members to do and what AOG major partner and collaborator Rick Warren requires in compelling members to tithe.  How could the Apostle Paul be clearer?  ALL giving must NOT be out of compulsion:

2Cr 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Note this is not each church, but each individual man.  There should be no patrolling of local churches to see if they are tithing or not.

Paul also twice eternally damned the Judaizers in Galatians who were trying to put Christians back under the law, which would include compulsory tithing as though it were a Temple tax. . . . . .

read the full article here.

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Hillsong plans Brisbane housewarming before vote cast

Posted in AOG, Discernment, Humanism, Post-Modernism, prophetic, Signs of The Times on April 22, 2009| Leave a Comment »

from The Brisbane Times:

The Hillsong juggernaut has planned a victory party on May 1 to celebrate its arrival in Brisbane despite its takeover of a Pentecostal church south of the city not yet receiving the green light from congregants.

Registered members of the Garden City Christian Church in Mount Gravatt will on Sunday vote on whether to officially appoint evangelists and Hillsong founders Brian and Bobbie Houston as senior pastors in a move that would see the church renamed the Hillsong Brisbane Campus.

Despite claiming their pending footprint into Queensland was merely a partnership with the existing church, an information document circulated at Garden City at a service on April 5 has left little doubt about the Houstons’ intentions to change the face of the congregation.

“We intend, as indicated earlier, to operate as Hillsong Brisbane Campus,” the document noted.

Anticipating the approval of the takeover by members will be a mere formality, Hillsong heavies have planned a large housewarming party at the church on May 1 – the day after the three-day Australian Christian Churches (ACC) national conference winds up at the Gold Coast Convention Centre.

ACC, of which Mr Houston is the head, is the Australian branch of the Assemblies of God denomination.

“They’re going to have a gathering at the church to celebrate their win,” said a Mt Gravatt church congregrant, who asked that her name not be published.

The congregant fears the nature of the Mt Gravatt church, which has more than 1000 members, will continue to go backwards under the stewardship of the Hillsong franchise.

“It used to be a really humble church and it’s totally changed over the years,” she said.

“They do really, really frivolous things. Once they did skydiving to raise money for missions.

“If people want to support the church they will – you don’t have to have big names.”

She said her family intended to end their long-time association with the church when Hillsong took over.

Hillsong has indicated it would allow the church’s acting pastor Steve Dixon to remain for a transitional period and that members would not lose control over church assets under the so-called partnership.

But one former Hillsong congregant has warned that the “controlling cult” made fundraising and recruitment its highest priorities, with church members holding few rights.

“They’re coming off all kind and pastoral when in fact it is simply a company takeover,” said Tanya Levin, author of the 2007 book People in Glass Houses, about her experiences under Hillsong.

“It will be interesting to to see how much of their former church as they know it survives.

“Because the Assemblies of God have got a history of going in, taking over and pretty quickly throwing out everybody that the previous church actually thought were important.”

Hillsong’s headquarters, the “Hills” campus, is in the Sydney suburb of Baulkham Hills but it also has two other campuses in the city. It conducts services around Sydney and has established international extensions in the UK, the Ukraine, South Africa and Sweden.

Ms Levin said the move into Brisbane was the latest example of the Houstons’ desire to spread their influence.

“They’re really explicit about wanting other areas in the world,” she said.

“They want Africa, particularly, as well as India.”

The church has established a growing presence within political circles in recent years, with then-Prime Minister John Howard opening its Baulkham Hills complex in 2002 and the likes of Peter Costello, Alexander Downer, Helen Coonan and Bob Carr having attended Hillsong events and conventions.

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