”Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that’s what I believe, so, you know, I’m not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are.”
Joel Osteen considers the fact that Mormon’s believe in another christ, not the Biblical Christ a “little detail”. In other words as long as they believe in any old christ thats ok! Well Joel you have once again shown why you are a ravening wolf! If you do not believe in the Biblical Christ you are not saved!
The Apostle Paul warns us of the dangers that face us and and how often there will be other spirits trying to seduce us away from our relationship with the real Jesus Christ to follow after another Christ or other spirits seeming to be the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 1:1-4:
Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
Galatians 1:6-10
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
In Christ Jesus we are individually responsible to test the spirits to see if they be of God (1 John 4:1-3) and to test all teachings against the Word of God (Acts 17:11). With a multitude of teachers today the tendency is to allow anything and everything to come through the doors with very little attempt to discern the truth. We are all called to guard, to watch and to warn those within the church, of the dangers of the leaven of false teaching, seducing spirits, doctrines of demons, destructive heresies and the philosophies of men.
WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I’ve got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian?
OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that’s what I believe, so, you know, I’m not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are. And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me, and I don’t think he would — anything would stop me from voting for him if that’s what I felt like.
WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up in those theological issues?
OSTEEN: I probably don’t get hung up in them because I haven’t really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don’t know. I certainly can’t say that I agree with everything that I’ve heard about it, but from what I’ve heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that’s a common bond.
Of Course the Head of the Mormon Church Drops this little bombshell:
Mormon Prophet Admits He Believes in Another Christ – Not the Traditional Jesus
By James K. Walker (Chart and notes by Timothy Oliver)
Paris, France – In a surprising admission during last month’s three nation European speaking trip, Mormon president Gordon B. Hinckley stated that the Christ he believes in is not the same Christ as the one followed by those outside the LDS Church.
Hinckley quoted unnamed critics of the LDS Church who claim that Mormons do not believe in the traditional Christ and then he agreed with them.
The LDS Church News reported: “In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times’” (June 20, 1998, <http://www.desnews.com/cgi-bin/libstory_church?dn98&9806210091>).
Despite this major difference on a pivotal doctrine of the Christian faith, Hinckley maintains that he is a Christian. “Am I Christian?” Hinckley asked rhetorically, “Of course I am. I believe in Christ. I talk of Christ. I pray through Christ. I’m trying to follow Him and live His gospel in my life” (Ibid.).
Christians should ask, “Which Christ?” The Bible warns of false teachers who promote “another Jesus whom we have not preached” (2 Corinthians 11:4). The Apostle Paul warned the Corinthians not to believe everyone who preached “Jesus.” The true Jesus was based on the tradition of apostolic preaching – the Jesus “we preached.” Paul compared the preaching another Christ outside of that tradition with the deception of the serpent in the Garden of Eden (2 Corinthians 11:4, Genesis 3 1:4-5). In the same context, Paul warned the Church to beware of “.false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:13).
Who Is Jesus?
Christian creeds contain the basic beliefs of traditional Christians – including what they believe about Christ. Christians claim that their creeds are based solely on the Bible. Furthermore, the authority of the creeds rests on their underlying scripture. Because the creeds are derived from and dependent on biblical data, there is a remarkable uniformity between the creeds of various denominations and churches. This is especially true on the essential doctrines such as the Person of Christ.
Unlike the traditional Christian view of Jesus based solely on the Bible, Hinckley’s Christ is based to a large extent on extra-biblical revelation. It is not surprising then to find significant differences.
Hinckley notes this important distinction: “For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this, the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages” (LDS Church News).
Additional Information, or Actually Another Jesus?
It is interesting that Hinckley states that the beliefs of traditional Christians were so different than that of Latter-day Saints, that their traditional Jesus “is not the Christ of whom I speak.” It is not just some different information about the same Jesus but a completely different Jesus.
This is a quite rare confession in recent Mormonism. Early Mormon leaders were quite candid about the differences between LDS doctrine and Christian doctrine. One example is the 1820 First Vision account Hinckley cited which is also recorded in LDS Scripture. In relating this vision, Mormon Church founder, Joseph Smith, makes a similar point to Hinckley’s. Smith said that Jesus told him that all of the creeds of existing Christianity were “an abomination in his sight.” These Christian creeds would, of course, include those that describe the essential attributes and identity of the Jesus worshipped by traditional Christians.
As Hinckley observed, Joseph Smith’s first vision introduced a completely different understanding of God’s nature and an entirely distinct concept of Jesus – in fact a different Jesus – than the one worshipped by “all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages” (Ibid.).
One may still find today, for sale in LDS bookstores, similar examples of candor in books written by General Authorities. In most cases, however, they are old publications written by former Mormon leaders.
Although they are rare, there are similar statements by LDS leaders in the last twenty-five years. For example, Elder Bernard P. Brockbank, of the First Quorum of the Seventy, speaking from the Tabernacle in Salt Lake City during General Conference quotes a June 18, 1976 London Times article that states in part, “In fact, there is good reason for regarding them as a new religion rather than as another variety of Christianity.. the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity.”
Elder Brockbank then adds a very frank admission: “It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For example from the Church of England’s Articles of Religion, article one, I quote: ‘There is but one living God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions..’ We cannot obtain salvation and eternal life by worshipping fake Christs.. The belief that God has no body parts, and passions is not a doctrine of Jesus Christ or a doctrine of the holy scriptures but is a doctrine of men, and to worship such a God is in vain” (“The Living Christ,” Ensign, May, 1977, pp. 26-7).
But Brockbank’s frankness may be the exception that proves the rule. LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie was one of the last LDS leaders to openly state that the Christ of traditional Christianity was different than the LDS Christ, and false. Also citing Joseph Smith’s First Vision, McConkie said Christians worship “false Christs.” He specifically named Methodists, Presbyterians and Baptists and included all Christianity by implication.
“But in a larger and more realistic sense, false Christs are false systems of religion that use his name and profess to present his teachings to the world. The cries, ‘Lo, here,’ and ‘Lo, there,’ which went forth in Joseph Smith’s day, when ’some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist’ (JS-H 5), meant that each group of gospel expounders was saying, ‘Lo, here is Christ; we have his system of salvation; ours is the true church; we know the way; come, Join with us’” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p.324).
Since McConkie’s death in 1985 such statements by General Authorities are very rare. They have not repealed these teachings – they continue to publish the older books and Scriptures where the doctrines are clearly taught. Mormon leaders, however, are not prone to publicly repeat or emphasize their belief that all traditional Christian doctrines are an abomination, and that Christians worship a different, and wrong, Jesus.
Today one is more likely to hear Mormons say that they believe in Jesus “too” – but have some additional information. They may point out a few historical differences (such as Christ’s visit to America recorded in the Book of Mormon) but ignore big differences – the fundamental issue of Christ’s very nature and essential attributes.
Reflecting this newer attitude, the notion that the Mormon Jesus is different than the Christ of traditional Christianity is dismissed by the Encyclopedia of Mormonism as simply one of many anti-Mormon misconceptions. “A broad spectrum of anti-Mormon authors has produced the invective literature of this period. Evangelicals and some apostate Mormons assert that Latter-day Saints are not Christians. The main basis for this judgment is that the Mormon belief in the Christian Godhead is different from the traditional Christian doctrine of the Trinity. They contend that Latter-day Saints worship a ‘different Jesus’ and that their scriptures are contrary to the Bible” (“Anti-Mormon Publications,” vol. 1).
Brigham Young University professor Dr. Stephen E. Robinson attempts to further blur the distinction between the LDS Jesus and the traditional Christian Jesus. According to Robinson, those who claim Mormons have a “different Jesus” are not honestly dealing with real issues but only playing tricks with language.
Robinson argues that, “Evangelicals often accuse Latter-day Saints of worshiping a ‘different Jesus’ because we believe some things about Jesus that cannot be proven from the Bible.. This charge that people worship ‘a different Jesus’ if they disagree over any detail of his character or history, is simply a rhetorical device, a trick of language” (Craig L. Blomberg and Stephen E. Robinson, How Wide the Divide?, pp. 136-37).
With apparent reluctance, Robinson confesses in a footnote, “Unfortunately, some Latter-day Saint authors have also resorted to this rhetorical device in describing ‘the false Jesus of the apostate sectarians’ and the like” (Ibid., p. 220).
Unfortunately for Robinson, he is clearly out of harmony with the Prophet and President of his church. President Hinckley does not appear to regard this as a mere “rhetorical device” or some attempt to play “a trick of language.”
Far from it! Hinckley even cited Joseph Smith’s First Vision found in Mormon scripture, as proof of his contention that his Jesus is a different Christ than the Jesus of historical Christianity.
This may be one of the few times that evangelical Christians can agree with the leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Indeed, the Mormon Jesus is a “different Christ.” It should be hoped that Robinson and all others would see this distinction also.
Joel Olsteen actually has a Christian attitude. He doesn’t say specificaly that Mormons are saved, but he does acknowledge that they believe that Jesus Christ is their savior, and I think that is all anyone could ask for.
So you obviously ignored what the Head of the Mormon Church very clearly said!
Also What Joel Osteen said is not “A Christian Attitude”
I noticed you provided no Biblical Support for your opinion!
Thats because there is none whatsoever!
We are all to “Try the Spirits” and judge everything by what the Word of God says to determine whether someone is truly of the Christ of the Bible, not just of any old “christ” that a person wants to define. A person is not of the Biblical Christ simply because they say they believe in A “christ”. the key here is what “christ” do they believe in. And it is clearly obvious that Mormons do not believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ.
I would suggest you study up on what Mormons believe, which you obviously have not.
I’m a mormon, and believe me, we absolutely believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ!!! I think that Hinckley should have put it in different words, because people are obviously interpreting what he is saying very wrongly! His point is that we don’t believe in certain things that have been taught traditionally in other Christian faiths, such as the concept of the trinity which arose from the nicene creed. The bible has way too many references of the distincion between the father and the son, such as all the times when the Son is speaking of or praying to his father, for example. I have to admit that it is really odd to hear people debate about what we believe, especially when incorrect conclusions are made. The weirdest thing to hear is people saying that we don’t believe in the Christ of the bible. It makes me wonder if they have some type of internal blinders.
Jennifer,
No Mormonism does not believe in the Biblical Jesus.
The Mormon church views Jesus and Satan as spirit brothers and sons of God. God put forth His plan of salvation for the world, and Satan proposed his own plan. Jesus accepted the Father’s plan and offered to implement it as the Savior. The Father chose Jesus, and the spirit of Jesus was given a body through the virgin Mary. He was crucified on a Roman cross, and rose from the dead three days later to establish His deity. The character and life of Jesus is attainable by anyone who performs at such a righteous level.
The Christian church teaches that Jesus Christ has existed eternally as the Son of God, the second “person” of the Trinity. Jesus took on human flesh about 2000 years ago and was born into the world through the virgin Mary. He was crucified on a Roman cross for our sins, and rose from the dead three days later to bear witness to His pre-existent deity.
Further:
The Mormon church sees God as the Supreme Being of the universe. However, He gradually acquired that position over a long period of time by living a perfect and righteous life. God the Father has a body (flesh and bones). The Christian church proclaims God as eternally and infinitely supreme. He is the same today as always. He is a spirit Being.
Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary. They believe Jesus is a God, but that any human can also become a god.
The Mormon church holds that Jesus Christ overcame physical death and guaranteed physical resurrection to all mankind. However, spiritual death can only be avoided through personal obedience of God’s commandments. Forgiveness of sins requires faith, repentance and baptism by an approved Mormon priest. The practice of baptism for the dead is an extension of this belief, in which Mormons are baptized in proxy for those who have died without proper baptism.
The Christian church teaches that we are unable to live a life righteous enough to meet God’s perfectly holy standard. Therefore, we establish a relationship with God by faith in the work of Christ on the cross, not by our own works. Baptism and good deeds are acts of obedience to God, but not the means for gaining eternal salvation.
The Mormon church maintains that although there is temporary punishment for those that are most wicked, Jesus Christ will establish a new kingdom that will consist of three levels: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom.
The Christian church holds that there are only two possible fates after death, heaven or hell. These locations are final, both physically and spiritually.
The Mormon church uses two sources as its primary authorities: the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price are also viewed as divinely authoritative.
The Christian church uses the Holy Bible alone as its authority from God. Joseph Smith is not recognized as a prophet.
The Mormon church teaches that humans exist as spirit beings before their birth. At physical birth, bodies are given to these spirits. They are also given an opportunity for free-will choice. The physical world represents a period of probation. The status of a person in the afterlife is determined by the way that person lived their life on Earth. If the person lived by a satisfactory standard, (including the fulfillment of Mormon temple obligations) that person has the potential to become a god in the after-life. They can also produce “spirit children” to populate a world of his own (like God did with the earth).
The Christian church holds that humans do not exist as spirits prior to being born into the world. Humans cannot attain godhood or populate other worlds with “spirit children.”
And:
When you meet people from the LDS faith, they will say to you — “We’re Christians too, because we believe in the Savior Jesus Christ.”
This is well illustrated by:
Mormon apologist Gilbert W. Scharffs [who in his book] claimed that “Latter-day Saints are Christians because they emphatically believe in Christ, use His name in their official church title, and believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which testify repeatedly of the reality of Christ and the truth of His teachings….Mormons are Christians. Christians are those who accept Christ as their Savior” (as cited in The Counterfeit Gospel Of Mormonism, 119).
But the question we need to ask is: Which Jesus Christ do you believe in; Jesus Christ of Nazareth—of the historic biblical record—or one of the myriad impostors. In order to answer this question we will need to look at what the LDS church itself actually teaches about Christ Jesus. So, let us first consider this from Gospel Principles, which is an official publication of the Mormon Church.
The following comes from chapter 2:
God is not only our ruler and creator; he is also our Heavenly Father. “All men and women are . . . literally the sons and daughters of Deity. . . . Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body.” (Joseph F. Smith, “The Origin of Man,” Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, 78, 80)
Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ (see D&C 93:21), so he is literally our elder brother (see Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 26). Because we are the spiritual children of our heavenly parents, we have inherited the potential to develop their divine qualities. If we choose to do so, we can become perfect, just as they are. (Online source, emphasis added)
And then in the next chapter we read:
We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, “Whom shall I send?” (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, “Here am I, send me” (Abraham 3:27)… Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, “Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor” (Moses 4:1)”
(Online source, emphasis added).
How about this from the book Our Search For Happiness–An Invitation To Understand The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints —written by Mormon Apostle M. Russell Ballard:
our spiritual selves, if you will — existed along with the rest of our Heavenly Father’s spirit children. Jesus was the greatest of these spirits. He was the first-[one]-born…and He held a special place of honor with the Father “before the world was”… In that capacity He helped implement the plan that would bring us all to earth to obtain physical bodies and experience the vicissitudes of mortality so we could grow in our ability to obey God’s commandments once we heard and understood them. (9)
In the LDS book of “Scripture,” known as The Doctrine And Covenants Jesus is alleged to have spoken this to the so-called prophet Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Church:
And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn; And all those through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are of the church of the Firstborn. Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;… (93:21-23).
And the finally Dr. Walter Martin sums this section up well for us in his classic textbook The Kingdom of the Cults when he points out that the “Jesus” of the LDS Church is clearly not the Christ of biblical revelation:
The Savior of Mormonism, however, is an entirely different person, as their official publications clearly reveal. The Mormon “Savior” is not the second person of the Christian Trinity,… Mormons reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, and he is not even a careful replica of the New Testament Redeemer.
In Mormon theology, Christ as a preexistent spirit was not only the spirit brother of the devil (as alluded to in The Pearl of Great Price, Moses 4:1-4, and later reaffirmed by Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, 13:282), but celebrated his own marriage to “Mary and Martha, and the other Mary,” at Cana of Galilee, “whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)…[and] the Mormon concept of the Virgin Birth alone distinguishes their “Christ” from the Christ of the Bible. (252, emphasis mine)
So, Who Are You Going To Believe?
And lastly your assertion that: “the concept of the trinity which arose from the nicene creed.” is a false ascertion. The Bible very clearly asserts the concept of the Trinity (God exists eternally as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19). The council of Nicea only made that Biblical concept an established, written and accepted doctrine of the official Church to refute the heresy that Jesus was of a lesser substance than God the Father, and that Jesus was not pre-existant eternally with God the Father.
John:
Just curious as to the Biblical justification you use to say that a Mormon can’t be saved.
Most Christian websites seem to indicate that to be saved one needs to:
1. Admit that they are a sinner.
2. Be willing to turn from sin (repent).
3. Believe that Jesus Christ died for them, was buried and rose from the dead.
4. Through prayer, invite Jesus into their life to become their personal Savior.
It appears that there is a fair amount of debate on the requirement of water baptism, but is it safe to say that the above list is accurate?
Where in the Bible does it say that salvation is dependent on some list of specific theological musings on the exact nature of deity? It seems to me that the requirement of salvation is more along the lines of believing on His name.
“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. ” (1 John 5:11-13)
John,
I too am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a 27 year old college graduate, working as a concrete dispatcher, preparing for family life, and participating in my community. Where do I look for light and guidance through this wicked world of ours? To Jesus of Nazareth.
We just finished our year long Sunday School study on the New Testament wherein church members called to teach from the New Testament did so with love and reverence for their personal Savior. We studied the Sermon on the Mount and sought ways to follow the Lord’s teachings in our every day lives.
I don’t denigrate the faith others claim in their Savior and I would ask that you not denigrate mine, for this Jesus has saved me from misery and shown me the high road of service, learning, and love for my fellow man. And this Jesus of Nazareth is the very Jesus our church leaders teach and prophecy about. I know this with all my heart and mind and I know my witness is true.
How could that be? Because the Holy Spirit sweetly, peacefully, and with love sublime testifies to my soul that this is the work of the Lord and that if I follow in His course He will purify my heart and fill me with His perfect love. I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Craig,
What you say sounds all well and good on the surface, however what you believe each one of those things to mean is the key fundamental and important factor and that is who you believe Jesus is ie Jesus is the Son of God, the second person in the trinity of the God-head eternally co-existent with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
The matter of whether salvation is dependent on a list of specific Theological as you put it “musings” on the exact nature of deity is also a key fundamental Biblical aspect of whether you are actually saved or not.
You obviously do not know why Satan fell and became who he was:
Isaiah 14:12-15:
How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Satan (Lucifer) wanted out of pride to make himself equal to God. Mormonism finds its root in Satanic Rebellion: To make ones self equal with God. Ad that my friend is not some Theological “Musing”
To understand one’s relationship to God is key to being saved. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Prov. 1:7).
When you understand and respect God for who he is: The everlasting eternal creator and sustainer of all creation, whom you can never be equal to then you will find that you could never think that fact a mere Theological musing. it is the key foundation of all Scripture.
To Jeff,
It is not denigrating you to say that being a Mormon says that you are not saved. It is stating a clear and undeniable Biblical Truth.
It matters not that you study the New Testament, If you hold to the tenets of faith of the Mormon Church you are not saved.
If you actually believe that God the Father and God the Son (Jesus Christ) were first men who attained Deity by an upright life as a man, that you believe YOU can become a God like God the Father, and God the Son when you die then no you are not a Christian and you are not saved.
Mormonism is not Biblical, I suggest you read my comment above laying out what Mormonism teaches and how hit directly contradicts Scripture.
All Cults and false religions claim to have received a later revelation that “clarifies” scripture or adds to it. Mormonism is no different.
I would say to you with love, repent, denounce and refute Mormonism full stop.
To all,
I have received more comments from those who support the Mormon contention that they are True Christians and I have chosen not to post those comments for this simple reason and I have reiterated this before on this web site:
This web site is not a free for all web site where anyone can post comments at their will. This web site is for posting articles that point out the growing apostasy among Evangelical Christians and showing this Biblically.
I will not post ad nauseum, comments that argue from a postion of Relative Truth or non-Biblcial sources. if you can make a comment refuting any article on this web site using full Biblical support only and arguing from a position of anti-thesis which the Word of God is clearly based on your comments will be posted and responded to, otherwise I will not get into endless debates with those who do not accept Sola Scriptura (by Scripture Alone).
Apparently some do not think I have provided enough Scriptural Proof to show the fraudulent and clearly anti-Christian nature of Mormonism:
Mormonism vs. the Bible
By Gary F. Zeolla
In 1820, a man by the name of Joseph Smith claimed he had a vision in which God the Father and the Son appeared to him. He said he was told the churches of that time, “were all wrong” and “all their creeds were an abomination” (Smith, p.49).
In a later vision Joseph Smith alleged he was told he was the one chosen to restore the true Church to the world by bringing forth the Book of Mormon. As a result, on April 6, 1830, “The Church of Christ” was founded. The name was later changed to, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” (LDS). The group is more popularly known as “Mormonism.”
Joseph Smith was killed by an angry mob on June 27, 1844. Afterwards, Brigham Young took over the presidency of the new church (McDowell, pp.64-66). Since then, the Mormon church has had a succession of 11 presidents (or prophets; Hinckley, pp.130-131). The LDS church also has 12 men designated as apostles at all times.
Doctrinal Shift
Mormonism has diverted from historic Christianity on many doctrinal issues. One important shift is its attitude towards revelation.
The LDS believes its prophets are “God’s mouthpieces” and, “… the statements of the presidents of the church should stand next to the scriptures as authoritative sources on the various gospel doctrines” (Ludlow, pp.viii, ix). The teachings of its apostles are also considered authoritative, though not infallible like those of the prophets.
But the Bible does not teach that the offices of prophet and apostle as givers of special revelation will continue indefinitely. Paul refers to the Church as, “having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets.” A “foundation” is laid first, and only once. The “building” then “grows” on top of it (Eph 2:20,21).
Further, “The epistles of 2 Peter and Jude, among the last New Testament writings to be penned, exhort the readers to avoid false doctrines by recalling the teachings of the apostles (2Pet 1:12-15; 2:1; 3:2,14-16; Jude 3-4,17). Peter and Jude did not say “Listen to the apostles living today,” but instead urged believers to ‘remember what the apostles said’” (Bowman, p. 31).
Low View of the Bible
One reason Mormonism has moved away from a belief in the all-sufficiency of the Bible is its acceptance of a negative, lower criticism of the Scriptures.
Joseph Smith claimed, “Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors.” Brigham Young said further, “… many precious things have been rejected in the compilation and translation of the Bible” (Ludlow, pp.345f). For discussions on these claims see Have Precious Truths Been Lost from the Bible? and An Introduction to Textual Criticism.
Despite its low view of Scripture, Mormonism still claims its belief system coheres with the teachings of the Bible. Brigham Young proclaimed, “In all my teachings, I have taught the gospel from the Old and New Testaments. I have found therein every doctrine and the proof of every doctrine the Latter-Day Saints believe in” (Ludlow, p.346).
This LDS claim will be tested against the teachings of the Bible (Acts 17:11).
Doctrine of God
Joseph Smith declares the Mormon doctrine of God, “GOD HIMSELF WAS ONCE AS WE ARE NOW AND IS AN EXALTED MAN and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! …”
Joseph Smith continues, “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that HE WAS ONCE A MAN LIKE US; yea, that God Himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.”
Another LDS prophet, Lorenzo Snow, taught, “We are the offspring of our Father in Heaven and we possess in our spiritual organizations the same capabilities, powers and faculties that our Father possesses, although in an infantile state.”
Further, the Mormon god still has room to progress. President Woodruff stated, “GOD HIMSELF IS INCREASING AND PROGRESSING IN KNOWLEDGE, POWER, AND DOMINION, and will do so, worlds without end.”
Moreover, the Mormon god’s progress is contingent on man’s. Lorenzo Snow, another president taught, “He has given us faculties and powers that are capable of enlargement until HIS fullness is reached.”
Also, Joseph Smith taught, “Our Father in Heaven is a personage of tabernacle, just as I am … and HE HAS ALL THE PARTS AND PASSIONS OF A PERFECT MAN, and HIS BODY IS COMPOSED OF FLESH AND BONES, but not of blood” (Ludlow, pp.277,276,78,74,278).
Thus, according to Mormonism, the difference between God and human beings is only one of degree, not of kind. He has simply progressed further than we have.
Is This the God of the Bible?
Is this the God of the Bible? First it must be asked if God changes, grows and progresses. Is God mutable (subject to change) or immutable (not subject to change)?
Psalm 102:25-27 contrast the changing, non-eternal nature of the universe with the unchanging, eternal nature of God. God Himself spoke through Malachi and proclaimed, “For I am the LORD, I do not change …” (Mal 3:6; see also 1Sam 15:29; Heb 6:13-20; Jam 1:17). These verses clearly show the God of the Bible is immutable.
Second, there is no way the God of the Bible used to be a man. Moses prayed, “Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God” (Ps 90:2; see also Numb 23:19).
Third, the God of the Bible does not have a physical body composed of “flesh and bones.” Jesus stated very clearly, “God is Spirit” (John 4:24). Elsewhere, Jesus declared, “a spirit does not have flesh and bones” (Luke 24:39). Also, if God had a physical body, He would be visible; but the Bible teaches God is INVISIBLE (Job 9:11; Col 1:15; 1Tim 1:17; 6:16; Heb 11:27; 1John 4:12).
And finally, Paul proclaimed to the Athenians, “The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He served with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives life and breath and all things to all” (Acts 17:25,26; MKJV).
The God of the Bible is in no way dependent on us; but we are absolutely dependent on Him! (see also 1Chr 29:14; Rom 12:3; 1Cor 4:6,7; 15:10; 2Cor 3:5).
Sex in Heaven?
Next to be studied is Mormonism’s attitude towards Jesus and His relationship to people in general. Brigham Young professed, “WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS OUR ELDER BROTHER ….” Likewise, Joseph Smith said, “Among the spirit children of Elohim [God the Father], the firstborn was and is … Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors” (Ludlow, p.280).
LDS apostle Bruce McConkie writes, “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of AN ETERNAL MOTHER” (quoted in Tanners, p.164).
Moreover, another Mormon apostle, Orson Pratt, declared, “We have now clearly shown that GOD THE FATHER HAD A PLURALITY OF WIVES, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His first born, AND ANOTHER BEING UPON THE EARTH BY WHOM HE BEGAT THE TABERNACLE [PHYSICAL BODY] OF JESUS, as His only begotten in this world” (quoted in Tanners, p.227).
Joseph Smith explains further, “Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, ELOHIM IS LITERALLY THE FATHER OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST AND ALSO OF THE BODY in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh …” (Ludlow, p.280).
Putting this all together, Mormonism teaches the SPIRITS of all people were conceived in heaven via physical, sexual intercourse between the Father and one or more of his goddess wives. This “heavenly sex” is possible since the Mormon god (and presumably His wives) have “all the parts and passions” that we do.
Thus, in Mormonism, the only difference between Jesus and people in general is that His spirit was conceived before ours. Also, to produce Jesus’ physical body, the Mormon god came down to earth and had sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary.
Is This in the Bible?
Are any of these ideas in the Bible? Is Jesus just our “elder brother” or is He unique? John 1:18; 3:16 teach Jesus is the “only begotten Son.” The footnote in The Believer’s Study Bible comments, “The only begotten Son” (Greek, monogenes) means one of a kind, unique, without precedent” (Criswell, p.1494). John 5:18-26 clearly upholds Jesus’ uniqueness. He is said to be “equal to God” (v.18) and to have “life in Himself” (v.26). Jesus is declared to have an unique relationship with the Father (vv.19-24; compare Matt 11:27).
As for heavenly sex, it must asked, “How can the copulation of PHYSICAL beings (the Mormon god and his goddess wives) produce SPIRIT children?” Further, as already shown, the God of the Bible does not have a physical body. Hence, the whole concept of sex in heaven is simply nonsense (see Matt 22:30).
As for God having sexual intercourse with Mary, according to Mormonism, Mary is literally the daughter of the Father. As such, for God to have had intercourse with her would have been INCEST! But such behavior would have Him breaking His own Law while causing Mary to sin (see Lev 18:6,7,17).
And lastly, the Virgin Birth of Christ is explicitly and implicitly taught in the Bible. This was demonstrated in the article “Born of the Virgin Mary.”
Mormon Exaltation
Joseph Fielding Smith was a descendent of Joseph Smith and the tenth Mormon president. He declared, “Joseph Smith taught a plurality of Gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and KEEPING THE WHOLE LAW will eventually reach the power and EXALTATION BY WHICH HE ALSO WILL BECOME A GOD” (p.98).
The book Gospel Principles is used by the LDS church to train new converts. The last chapter is titled “Exaltation” and explains this concept, “Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the father of spirit children. He is a creator. WE CAN BECOME GODS LIKE OUR HEAVENLY FATHER. THIS IS EXALTATION” (pp.289,290).
Lorenzo Snow summarizes the Mormon position, “AS MAN NOW IS, OUR GOD WAS; AS NOW GOD IS, SO MAN MAY BE …” (Ludlow, p.72). So a Mormon man is working to become a god. But the goal for a Mormon woman is rather different.
John Taylor, third president of the Mormon church, explains this goal in a letter to a Mormon lady. He is responding to her question, “And what is my final destiny after having obeyed the truth, if faithful to the end?”
Taylor writes:
Thou wilt be permitted to pass by the Gods and angels who guard the gates, and onward, upward to THY EXALTATION in a celestial world among the Gods, to be a priestess queen upon thy Heavenly Father’s throne, and a glory to thy husband and offspring, TO BEAR THE SOULS OF MEN, TO PEOPLE OTHER WORLDS (as thou did bear their tabernacles in mortality) WHILE ETERNITY GOES AND ETERNITY COMES; and if you will receive it, lady, this is eternal life (quoted in Ludlow, pp.9,10).
So a Mormon woman is working to have the privilege of populating her exalted husband’s planet. And notice, this is done in the same way children are brought forth “in mortality” (i.e. on this earth) and it continues indefinitely. In other words, “heaven” for a Mormon woman is to be eternally pregnant!
Biblical Justification
But what does the Bible teach on these matters? First, can men become gods? The true God declared through Isaiah, “And understand that I am He. BEFORE ME WAS NO GOD FORMED, NOR SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME. I, even, I am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior” (Isaiah 43:10,11).
How much clearer could God be? There is only ONE God. This has always been the case and always will be (see also Deut 4:35; 6:4; 2Sam 7:22; Isa 44:6,8; 46:9).
So men cannot be “exalted” to gods and women need not look forward to being eternally pregnant. The true need for both men and women is JUSTIFICATION before God.
John Robbins explains, “Justification by faith is the heart of the Gospel. As sinners we are all condemned before God; we deserve whatever punishment he is pleased to give us. But Christ died for the sins of his people; they are justified, rather than condemned” (Robbins, p.1; Luke 18:9-14; Rom 3:9-26; 4:5-8; 5:8-11).
To those trusting in Christ’s death for their justification, Paul writes, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom 5:1; see also Acts 13:38,39; Rom 8:33-39; 1Cor 6:11; Titus 3:4-7).
For additional study on the teachings of Mormonism, see the book “Behind the Mask of Mormonism” by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. It is available from Books-A-Million .
Just reading your post and I am impressed! Thought I would encourage you in your good work! You seem very knowledgeable and I love that you can lay out the truth so clearly!! Keep up the good work! I do have to say I like Joel O and am saddened that he took such a “PC” stance on mormon salvation. I think he knows the truth, just trying to keep peace, truly sad that a man with such a realm of influence would buckle.
[...] posts on the subject… John Baker of True Discernment Eric Barger of Take A Stand! Ministries I encourage you to read these posts and when you’re [...]
Let’s look at what the Bible says about those who don’t preach The Gospel. I am not saying this because of any one particular individual. This applies to us all. Reading from the New International Version [NIV]
Galatians 1:8-10
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Yeeowch! Boy, Paul didn’t care *at all* about what was hip, PC, cool, etc., and he wasn’t out to win friends. He was out to win souls. This wasn’t a popularity contest for Paul. It was life and death.
1 Corinthians 1:13, 23
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? … But we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles
This was Paul’s mission in life. Paul was not out to make sinners feel better about themselves. He knew what was at stake (eternity), and could not have cared any less whether they had had their best life then or not.
Galatians 2:20-21
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
Paul understood the importance of dying to Self. He never told anyone to take a vow of poverty, but doing things his own way was not on his agenda. If Paul were to be alive in this day and age, I suspect that many modern preachers would say that he (hypothetically) didn’t have enough faith because he wasn’t driving around in a Lexus SUV and he didn’t have a 20,000 square foot summer home. *Material things weren’t important to Paul unless they helped him spread The Gospel.* I seriously doubt that Jesus chose to get into the loftiest, most luxurious, largest pleasure yacht when he preached to the people on the seashore. He could not have cared any less.
What do the “Prosperity preachers” do with Habakkuk 3:17-18?
Though the fig tree does not bud and there are no grapes on the vines, though the olive crop fails and the fields produce no food, though there are no sheep in the pen and no cattle in the stalls, yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will be joyful in God my Savior.
And what about Job 13:15?
Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. [KJV]
and Job 1:20-22?
Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. In all this, Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. [KJV]
Job was a man who knew his God. And there are so many dear saints in the world today who can’t afford one car, let alone several $30,000+ cars. There are so many Godly men and women in third world countries that are being tortured, raped, beaten, hanged, skewered, burned alive, drowned, shot at, starved & emaciated, had their limbs severed, abandoned in prison cells for days at a time, yet they will not renounce their faith because they have found The Pearl Of Great Price. They know He is worth it. How much faith do those people have? I would be honored to be in the presence of such precious, lovely saints. I have not been given an ounce of their level of faith. Do we honestly think what neighborhood they live in is on their priority list?
I’m not saying that God calls us all to suffer as those precious people are suffering and have suffered. He gives us each a measure of faith. And the poor we will always have with us, yes I know that. God is not against us having what we consider to be good things, but when our things get in the way of us getting closer to Him and growing in Him, or leading a lost soul to Jesus, then we need to re-examine our priorities. If we truly believe that material objects and financial wealth are status of our faith, then may God have mercy on us. God *IS* angry with us when we sin and do not repent of it and do not make ammends with our fellow Man. He *WILL* hold us accountable for our sins on the Day of Judgement if we have not accepted His Son, Jesus, as our Savior and Lord. And it will not be a good Day for many people. God’s justice, perfection, holiness and righteousness outweigh His own desire to *NOT* send people to hell. On the Day of Judgement, God’s justice, perfection, holiness and righteousness will be so clear and apparent, that every sinner will say “Amen” to their own damnation. Why isn’t this preached to the masses?